Kratos Aurion v.2.25...Updated 3-11-11 @5:00PM

[Albafika]

Philia is a good feedback giver.

I agree it should be taken off, it's off, A moves are supposed to be normal attacks in Brawl... Not Special hits.

[Royal_Blade]

Are you referring to the Demon Fang tilt Wolfric?

Btw, Could anyone help me (or at least refer me) as to how I could make color scheme? (In General)

[Albafika]

Are you referring to the Demon Fang tilt Wolfric?

Btw, Could anyone help me (or at least refer me) as to how I could make color scheme? (In General)

Yeah, I'm reffering to that.

[DivineOverlord]

^That's true.

I'm surprised Philia hasn't said anything yet. (And I'm dreading that moment.)

haha Phila is just a passionate tales fan. He's overall a nice dude though (I think) lol

@Royal_Blade - by color schem do you mean just editing the color of the texture?

[Royal_Blade]

@Royal_Blade - by color schem do you mean just editing the color of the texture?

Yeah. What else did you have in mind?

[DivineOverlord]

@Royal_Blade - by color schem do you mean just editing the color of the texture?

Yeah. What else did you have in mind?

This always works for me http://www.filehippo.com/download_the_gimp/

[Psycho Philia]

Ok, I read all what was posted while I was left, and of course, I have some things to say!

Firstly, and this is absolutely not tied to Royal Blade, but to Divine Overlord, because he is the one who talked about it:

It is too bad indeed that Kratos won't probably get a shield. But in the game Tos, Kratos doesn't wear all the time a shield, when he is equipped with gloves, he doesn't have shield. So, the absence of shield is too bad because most of the time he has a shield, but it is not a mistake if we're take Tales of symphonia and play it.

An other thing to you, Divine Overlord: I played again with Kratos recently, and I saw the neutral attack when you arrive to the point where he makes a lot of hits, does 4 hits. It is absolutely not what Kratos should do. If you want a neutral attack for Kratos that reflects his Tos playstyle, you have only two choices, three hits, or 6 hits, with the specifical skill equipped. Make your choice, but change this because 4 for Kratos, it's bad from a Tales of point of view. However it could have worked on Lloyd, because he can make three hits or 4 with his basic attack, but it's not important.

Now about Royal Blade:

You're talking about Gungnir, and I already said my opinion, but for the occasion, I will say it again. I don't care if the Gungnir is put in this moveset, but as I already said, Gungnir is absolutely not the same type of movement that Dark Serpent. Dark Serpent with the architecture could allow Kratos to come back on the battlefield as he goes behind the opponent and travels a long distance. It would not be the case for Gungnir, it is not a real problem, but if Dark Serpent is removed, we have to take this into consideration, because Kratos will only have one move to come back. It is not a problem, but it has to be noticed.

You also said how this move would work, like Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch? Hum... Oh, excuse me, I have to go, it seems someone other than me wants to express himself. See you later!
*Run very fastly.*


BUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAA!!!!

You said you wanted this attack to work as Captain Falcon's punch, so why do you want it to put Kratos in helpless mode if it is used in air?! This move if it is used in air, is already a great waste of time like Captain Falcon's punch, because when you're charging, you can't move. I know this move allows Kratos to move forward when he does it, but very little, in truth you move less than if you didn't used this move. So why putting him in helpless mode, and besides, Captain falcon's punch doesn't put him in helpless mode in air! I really don't see what is the logic behind this... And finally, you say Gungnir is weird? It is a Kratos move, and as you said yourself, which is the most ironic, it acts exactly like Captain Falcon's punch, even in the game, with the only difference that your opponent is forced to be hit... So there is absolutely nothing weird here, and it is a fact! Now my work is finished here.

*Goes away.*
I think it doesn't need any additions, so I will continue.

About lightning blade put in Side Special:

As a side special? It is a possibility... But it is not the point that I find the most interesting. The most interesting point is that this move should have the animation of Sonic Thrust. I know that originally in the game, they have exactly the same animation. But here, it is different, you said the exact same animation, so for me it is the same properties. But when you do Lightning Blade, you move forward, which is absolutely not the case of the animation that is used for Sonic Thrust. So, it is a bad idea, from a pure factual point of view because maybe it is not what you thought of, but in the facts, this is what will happen if we follow you absolutely from what you said.

Sonic Thrust as a Side Tilt:

I don't see any problem here, it is a possibility, but in that case, we need to find a good move as a down tilt...

About Demon fang:

Remove the upward demon fang according to me is not a bad thing, for two reasons. The first is obviously because absolutely no Tales of characters can make a move like this, and here it is really weird to see this. They can use a demon fang that acts in air, but never being on ground and sending a wave up to 45 degree. And besides, the way to activate it, it is a little pain, most of the time you use hell pyre instead of it. So it would be a good thing to remove it indeed. Now, the demon fang put as a neutral B, it's a possibility again, but it's a little similar to Lloyd's Psa. It's not a real problem of course, but still, it would be better to make something a little different. After that, it's true, the place of this attack is a pure matter of "taste". But there is one thing that we don't need to forget, Demon Fang is an attack that is very important in the world of Tales of, it's an attack that we see very often. So completely remove it would be really too bad. Besides, it is the only immediate projectile that Kratos has, and it doesn't make him overpowered because it inflicts poor damages, and besides, it can't eject.

About the neutral attack:

There is no comments to do because all my opinion about this is put in what I said to Divine Overlord.

The down Tilt now, which is according to me.... Excuse me, it seems an other girl wants to express herself. Sorry!

*Runs fastly.*



So, you want to use the spell charge skill taken from Tales of Symphonia. A very bad idea. We're in Super Smash Bros Brawl, Kratos is already really powerful, and all what you do with this is to give him an other way to cast magic which is so fast that it is making him completely overpowered. If this idea is used, what will happen? We will always use this skill, making the cast of spell for first charge completely useless, and it was originally implemanted for this... Besides, if other people don't know, the spell charge in Tos game works like this, when you make the slash, the spell is casted immediately, Kratos doesn't even do the pose to cast magic, it is casted immediately, so it means while the spell is casted, he can still move, which would be a too great advantage for him in Brawl. And besides, like this he would be able to heal himself without chance to being interrupted? Ridiculous! Even in an overpowered version, I don't think it can work, because after all, the first spells in overpowered version are removed, as level 3 spells are casted immediately, if I follow what Divine Overlord said, and casting Judgement like this won't be fair at all, because a down tilt stronger than a smash.... And 25% even if you're at great damage is really really high, I think 20% is already high (the amount Divine Overlord put.)

So, I will go back to my quest about finding a hero.

*Goes away.*

It doesn't need any addition again, excepted the fact that it is the worse idea on your previous post. And besides, all this is nice, but, where do you put Gungnir if we make things like this?

And be careful about the aerials of Tovs, a swordsman like him in Brawl, it would be a little unfair if in a Up aerial he could attack people directly above him like Marth's up smash and at almost the same time people next to him. And the Tovs Kratos's style doesn't at all correspond at the fighting style he has in Tos, and as some people wants a Kratos closer than what he is in Tos, I think it will need to be modify if we use the aerials of Tovs. The neutral aerial even if it is one of the aerials I hate the most in all the ssbb game, can work, I hate this type of aerial, but still it can work and this is what is important, nothing more to say about it, the down aerial the thrust is not appropriated. Did you already saw an aerial which attacks only at 45 degree down and not below you? Besides all moves like this involving degree that exist in Brawl involve 25 degree, and a fall.  And these are basic attacks, be careful about this too, because I know we can't use artes for all attacks, but if the neutral attack doesn't eject correctly as it is a basic attack, the logic wants the other basic attacks doesn't eject correctly, and if there are three basic attacks like this as aerials, I can already say Kratos will have some difficults to eject in air, which in a Tos point of view would be good, but not in Brawl...

I think all is said. Divine overlord, now it's up to you.

[DivineOverlord]

Ok, I read all what was posted while I was left, and of course, I have some things to say!

Firstly, and this is absolutely not tied to Royal Blade, but to Divine Overlord, because he is the one who talked about it:

It is too bad indeed that Kratos won't probably get a shield. But in the game Tos, Kratos doesn't wear all the time a shield, when he is equipped with gloves, he doesn't have shield. So, the absence of shield is too bad because most of the time he has a shield, but it is not a mistake if we're take Tales of symphonia and play it.

An other thing to you, Divine Overlord: I played again with Kratos recently, and I saw the neutral attack when you arrive to the point where he makes a lot of hits, does 4 hits. It is absolutely not what Kratos should do. If you want a neutral attack for Kratos that reflects his Tos playstyle, you have only two choices, three hits, or 6 hits, with the specifical skill equipped. Make your choice, but change this because 4 for Kratos, it's bad from a Tales of point of view. However it could have worked on Lloyd, because he can make three hits or 4 with his basic attack, but it's not important.

Now about Royal Blade:

You're talking about Gungnir, and I already said my opinion, but for the occasion, I will say it again. I don't care if the Gungnir is put in this moveset, but as I already said, Gungnir is absolutely not the same type of movement that Dark Serpent. Dark Serpent with the architecture could allow Kratos to come back on the battlefield as he goes behind the opponent and travels a long distance. It would not be the case for Gungnir, it is not a real problem, but if Dark Serpent is removed, we have to take this into consideration, because Kratos will only have one move to come back. It is not a problem, but it has to be noticed.

You also said how this move would work, like Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch? Hum... Oh, excuse me, I have to go, it seems someone other than me wants to express himself. See you later!
*Run very fastly.*


BUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAA!!!!

You said you wanted this attack to work as Captain Falcon's punch, so why do you want it to put Kratos in helpless mode if it is used in air?! This move if it is used in air, is already a great waste of time like Captain Falcon's punch, because when you're charging, you can't move. I know this move allows Kratos to move forward when he does it, but very little, in truth you move less than if you didn't used this move. So why putting him in helpless mode, and besides, Captain falcon's punch doesn't put him in helpless mode in air! I really don't see what is the logic behind this... And finally, you say Gungnir is weird? It is a Kratos move, and as you said yourself, which is the most ironic, it acts exactly like Captain Falcon's punch, even in the game, with the only difference that your opponent is forced to be hit... So there is absolutely nothing weird here, and it is a fact! Now my work is finished here.

*Goes away.*
I think it doesn't need any additions, so I will continue.

About lightning blade put in Side Special:

As a side special? It is a possibility... But it is not the point that I find the most interesting. The most interesting point is that this move should have the animation of Sonic Thrust. I know that originally in the game, they have exactly the same animation. But here, it is different, you said the exact same animation, so for me it is the same properties. But when you do Lightning Blade, you move forward, which is absolutely not the case of the animation that is used for Sonic Thrust. So, it is a bad idea, from a pure factual point of view because maybe it is not what you thought of, but in the facts, this is what will happen if we follow you absolutely from what you said.

Sonic Thrust as a Side Tilt:

I don't see any problem here, it is a possibility, but in that case, we need to find a good move as a down tilt...

About Demon fang:

Remove the upward demon fang according to me is not a bad thing, for two reasons. The first is obviously because absolutely no Tales of characters can make a move like this, and here it is really weird to see this. They can use a demon fang that acts in air, but never being on ground and sending a wave up to 45 degree. And besides, the way to activate it, it is a little pain, most of the time you use hell pyre instead of it. So it would be a good thing to remove it indeed. Now, the demon fang put as a neutral B, it's a possibility again, but it's a little similar to Lloyd's Psa. It's not a real problem of course, but still, it would be better to make something a little different. After that, it's true, the place of this attack is a pure matter of "taste". But there is one thing that we don't need to forget, Demon Fang is an attack that is very important in the world of Tales of, it's an attack that we see very often. So completely remove it would be really too bad. Besides, it is the only immediate projectile that Kratos has, and it doesn't make him overpowered because it inflicts poor damages, and besides, it can't eject.

About the neutral attack:

There is no comments to do because all my opinion about this is put in what I said to Divine Overlord.

The down Tilt now, which is according to me.... Excuse me, it seems an other girl wants to express herself. Sorry!

*Runs fastly.*



So, you want to use the spell charge skill taken from Tales of Symphonia. A very bad idea. We're in Super Smash Bros Brawl, Kratos is already really powerful, and all what you do with this is to give him an other way to cast magic which is so fast that it is making him completely overpowered. If this idea is used, what will happen? We will always use this skill, making the cast of spell for first charge completely useless, and it was originally implemanted for this... Besides, if other people don't know, the spell charge in Tos game works like this, when you make the slash, the spell is casted immediately, Kratos doesn't even do the pose to cast magic, it is casted immediately, so it means while the spell is casted, he can still move, which would be a too great advantage for him in Brawl. And besides, like this he would be able to heal himself without chance to being interrupted? Ridiculous! Even in an overpowered version, I don't think it can work, because after all, the first spells in overpowered version are removed, as level 3 spells are casted immediately, if I follow what Divine Overlord said, and casting Judgement like this won't be fair at all, because a down tilt stronger than a smash.... And 25% even if you're at great damage is really really high, I think 20% is already high (the amount Divine Overlord put.)

So, I will go back to my quest about finding a hero.

*Goes away.*

It doesn't need any addition again, excepted the fact that it is the worse idea on your previous post. And besides, all this is nice, but, where do you put Gungnir if we make things like this?

And be careful about the aerials of Tovs, a swordsman like him in Brawl, it would be a little unfair if in a Up aerial he could attack people directly above him like Marth's up smash and at almost the same time people next to him. And the Tovs Kratos's style doesn't at all correspond at the fighting style he has in Tos, and as some people wants a Kratos closer than what he is in Tos, I think it will need to be modify if we use the aerials of Tovs. The neutral aerial even if it is one of the aerials I hate the most in all the ssbb game, can work, I hate this type of aerial, but still it can work and this is what is important, nothing more to say about it, the down aerial the thrust is not appropriated. Did you already saw an aerial which attacks only at 45 degree down and not below you? Besides all moves like this involving degree that exist in Brawl involve 25 degree, and a fall.  And these are basic attacks, be careful about this too, because I know we can't use artes for all attacks, but if the neutral attack doesn't eject correctly as it is a basic attack, the logic wants the other basic attacks doesn't eject correctly, and if there are three basic attacks like this as aerials, I can already say Kratos will have some difficults to eject in air, which in a Tos point of view would be good, but not in Brawl so good in Brawl...

I think all is said. Divine overlord, now it's up to you.

whew I read the whole thing. Yeah, We'll see how it goes. I'll need testers after I finish up a couple of new animations. for now I say, good night =]

[Zeljius]

@Philla: I believe that is the biggest paragraph you've typed yet xD

imma agree with Gungir not going into freefall.
and i think if Gungir would be put on kratos i'd take the place of Dark Serpent o.o"

and i think the Kratos PSA should be a little more like a "Brawled Out" Kratos, instead of just straight up kratos.

@Divine: I'm up for Testing ^_^
when this version came out i tested it like a madman
Opinion: Still Broken xD

Broken as in Overpowered

[Psycho Philia]

Zeljius: About the paragraph, here maybe, I don't really count what is my biggest paragraph you know!

But there is something very interesting in what you says, you say you want Kratos to be more like a Brawled out, can you be more precise please? Because, I know in a way where you want to go, but not enough precise, but I'm sure it's very important to talk about this!

[Zeljius]

Zeljius: About the paragraph, here maybe, I don't really count what is my biggest paragraph you know!

But there is something very interesting in what you says, you say you want Kratos to be more like a Brawled out, can you be more precise please? Because, I know in a way where you want to go, but not enough precise, but I'm sure it's very important to talk about this!

when i say more brawled out, i mean like-
keep alot of his ToS attacks, but give him a decent amount of attacks that kratos could do but isnt seen in the ToS game. or is! either way xD

like-
hmm.. and example would be Ganondorf thunderstomp. its an amazing move that i could see ganon doing if he could jump that high in twilight princess, but he's never done it xD

make it so he has balanced moves overall, with some weaknesses and some strong points.

in otherwords something i could look at, and gladly write an essay summarizing everything there is about him xD

Opinion? o.O

[Puraidou]

hmm.. and example would be Ganondorf thunderstomp. its an amazing move that i could see ganon doing if he could jump that high in twilight princess, but he's never done it xD

Hahaha i laughed at this example, i can totally see it happening in TP
I would totally laugh my ass off if it would happen, i can imagine how it would look XD

[Royal_Blade]

@Philia:

As a side special? It is a possibility... But it is not the point that I find the most interesting. The most interesting point is that this move should have the animation of Sonic Thrust. I know that originally in the game, they have exactly the same animation. But here, it is different, you said the exact same animation, so for me it is the same properties. But when you do Lightning Blade, you move forward, which is absolutely not the case of the animation that is used for Sonic Thrust. So, it is a bad idea, from a pure factual point of view because maybe it is not what you thought of, but in the facts, this is what will happen if we follow you absolutely from what you said.

I meant animation wise. Please keep him to move forward w/ lighting effects. I Prefer his ToV Lightning Blade anyways.

Sonic Thrust as a Side Tilt:

I don't see any problem here, it is a possibility, but in that case, we need to find a good move as a down tilt...

Just realized that it can be the Dash Attack. (I forgot about the Dash Attack.) Therefore can't be spammed. (not like a DTilt spam.)

So, you want to use the spell charge skill taken from Tales of Symphonia. A very bad idea. We're in Super Smash Bros Brawl, Kratos is already really powerful, and all what you do with this is to give him an other way to cast magic which is so fast that it is making him completely overpowered. If this idea is used, what will happen? We will always use this skill, making the cast of spell for first charge completely useless, and it was originally implemanted for this... Besides, if other people don't know, the spell charge in Tos game works like this, when you make the slash, the spell is casted immediately, Kratos doesn't even do the pose to cast magic, it is casted immediately, so it means while the spell is casted, he can still move, which would be a too great advantage for him in Brawl. And besides, like this he would be able to heal himself without chance to being interrupted? Ridiculous! Even in an overpowered version, I don't think it can work, because after all, the first spells in overpowered version are removed, as level 3 spells are casted immediately, if I follow what Divine Overlord said, and casting Judgement like this won't be fair at all, because a down tilt stronger than a smash.... And 25% even if you're at great damage is really really high, I think 20% is already high (the amount Divine Overlord put.)

He's not powerful, he has variety. And variety is what makes a character so unique.

Did you even read my post? I stated only novice spells. I also said for spells that aren't even included in his Down Special. Also, the spell activates during the frame where the sword would come in contact to make a hit. The slash doesn't have to connect, Kratos will just need to perform the slash for the novice spell to be used. Therefore leaving little time to attack afterwards. And yes, 20% is fine.

Btw, Divine, you should change Cyclone to Air Thrust. It would suit him more. And not sure if you changed explosion to eruption yet but if not, doing so would be nice. And if your stuck for an animation, start off with the grounded effect, (The one where your stuck in the ground.) Like so:

And add fiery effects from there.

imma agree with Gungir not going into freefall.
and i think if Gungir would be put on kratos i'd take the place of Dark Serpent o.o"

and i think the Kratos PSA should be a little more like a "Brawled Out" Kratos, instead of just straight up kratos.

Okay, no free fall, in my head when i mention how it acts i was thinking he would slow fall for some reason. But that's not important.

I agree with this "Brawled Out" idea. Let's take the Hero of time for example, Has link in any LoZ Game been able to use the Hero's Bow, Gale Boomerang, or even Bombs, in the air? Yet he still does so in Smash Bros.
And Snake, he technically has infinite ammo in Brawl, he's probably got limited ammo in MGS. (I've never played them so I'm not sure.)

I wouldn't mind doing some testing as well, Divine.

So...:

-We'll Keep gungnir for side special? I'm fine with that. (No Helpless)
-Demon Fang can stay side tilt
-Sonic Thrust can be the dash attack.
-DTilt can be the Horizontal Slash. (With or without Spell Charge, it doesn't matter)

[Psycho Philia]

Yeah I read your post if you want to know it, you shouldn't even wonder the question because if it wasn't the case, it would have been difficult for me to make a long post like this. But still, this skill is absolutely not justified in an overpowered version, if we use it the way you use it, here is what we should have if I follow your logic, even if you didn't talked a single thing about it:

Originally, the first charge spell is what is used for the down tilt. In the overpowered version, there is only one charge, the level 3 charge, which is in fact casted immediately. I don't know how if the spell charge is put, how it would work for the overpowered version, but if there is only one charge, I suppose it would be the judgment, thunder blade and explosion, that will be used, which is completely absurd.

And excuse me, but casting a spell immediately, even if it is novice spell, without chance to being interrupted, I say this is power, and absolutely not variety, why do you think the instant spell casting is an element of the overpowered version? Kratos being able to heal himself without chance to interrupt that, you say this is variety? Honestly, my arms fall! This idea of spell charge is nothing more than making Kratos overpowered. Especially if the slash doesn't have to connect in order to use a novice spell, it is even worse, because it means Kratos doesn't even have to hit his opponent to cast the spell, so for example he can heal himself instantly, no matter what happens! Divine Overlord, you had some critics saying that your Psa is too broken, if you want to make this worse, and betray the words balanced characters, follow this idea. But if you want to make a true Psa balanced, I think you know what you will have to do, and besides, it will mean less work for you.

And Sonic thrust as a down tilt is fine because your idea of horizontal slash shouldn't be used in any aspect, I don't think it would suit Kratos to make an arte like this while dashing, he has to stop himself before doing it, which is not really why a dash attack is used...

Zeljius: It is already a little the case, with Spread for example, and Cyclone (even if Cyclone it's true needs to be changed.) But it's true it can be more like Brawl, but still it will have to fit him too, those two elements are required. This is probably why I will make some aerials suggestions that are not used in the game, but will fit him perfectly.

[Royal_Blade]

Originally, the first charge spell is what is used for the down tilt. In the overpowered version, there is only one charge, the level 3 charge, which is in fact casted immediately. I don't know how if the spell charge is put, how it would work for the overpowered version, but if there is only one charge, I suppose it would be the judgment, thunder blade and explosion, that will be used, which is completely absurd.

My bad. I don't use the overpowered version at all so I was not aware of this. My apologies.

And Sonic thrust as a down tilt is fine because your idea of horizontal slash shouldn't be used in any aspect, I don't think it would suit Kratos to make an arte like this while dashing, he has to stop himself before doing it, which is not really why a dash attack is used...

I said Sonic Thrust as a Dash attack, it was already a DTilt.

Also, i did state that he can just do the slash without the spell charge. He can't have every ground based move an arte! The only basic attack his has is his Neutral Attack. At least give him a tilt that's actually like all other Brawl tilts.