Project M Pokemon Trio Triple Finish

[Kyogre386]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this. I think I read all the rules so I think this is in the right place, sorry if it's not.

Anyhow, I recently set up Project M. I like how Pokemon Trainer has been split into the 3 Pokemon. However, I don't like that the Final Smash has been removed. I know it makes less sense for the Pokemon to use Triple Finish when they are no longer directly linked, but to me it's even more awkward gameplay-wise to have a Brawl with Smash Balls on where some people can use it but others (that is, anyone playing as Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard) just make the Smash Ball disappear if they break it. Honestly, I'd rather they just be able to still use Triple Finish while still being separate characters. If nothing else, I could just view them as calling their allies. Giving them their own individual smashes would be cool, but much more difficult.

Anyhow, I want to edit the Pokemon trio so that when they break the Smash Ball it functions normally instead of just disappearing, and they can use Triple Finish. However, this appears to be significantly more difficult than expected. Fixing Samus and Zero Suit Samus so they didn't transform after the Final Smash (because Iron Man turning into Mami Tomoe would be just weird) was straightforward. All I had to do was remove 'Terminate Instance:' in the pac files in a couple places (might remove a few more lines later to smooth out the animation). However, the Pokemon trio seems to be significantly more complicated. I don't know what the Project M devs did, but there's a lot more that needs to be fixed than the Fit[character].pac and Fit[character]MotionEtc.pac files. I tried putting in the original files from the Brawl ISO to replace the Project M ones, and removing them all to make it default to the original files to see what would happen. The original movesets were restored, but the Pokemon still couldn't switch between each other (not that I want that anyway), and breaking the Smash Ball still made it disappear, so obviously whatever edit the Project M devs made to make the Smash Ball ineffectual on those characters is not in those files.

My suspicion is that the edit in question is in ft_poke.rel. Though interestingly, when I tried replacing that file with its original or removing it, the game would crash when I loaded the Pokemon. Not sure why, as I don't know where else that kind of information on characters would be stored. Anyhow, turns out .rels are way harder to mess with than .pacs. BrawlBox won't open them, and they are entirely assembly language, which even if you understand assembly language, it's not the kind of thing you can skim to find what you are looking for like a higher order programming language. Everywhere I looked through Google, it seemed like just about everyone was clueless about how these files work. But there must be SOMEBODY who knows enough about them, because otherwise the Project M devs wouldn't be able to make this change in the first place.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone here has the know-how to edit the .rel files (I'm pretty sure I can handle the .pacs on my own) to undo the change in Project M that prevents the Pokemon trio from using the Smash Ball while still leaving them as separate characters and leaving it compatible with Project M. Or, if they could at the very least tell me the memory addresses that I would need to mess with, because finding what you need in assembly language is taxing, as the only real way to know what is going on most of the time is to read top to bottom. Maybe someone who worked on Project M?

If nobody knows how to do this I'll probably just give up, but I figured it was worth asking.

[Lillith]

The problem here is that individual Pokemons couldn't use Final Smashes in Brawl anyway, it's not 'cause of the PM devs. I think I have heard that they're trying to fix it... Don't hold me to that though.

[Kyogre386]

I thought the Pokemon in Project M were still functioning as Pokemon Trainer, they just made it impossible to switch between them, removed Pokemon Trainer from the background, and gave them individual CSS icons? I wouldn't think there would be enough functionality to use the characters at all individually, I would imagine you'd have significant problems far beyond a Final Smash. Though I could be wrong about that.

[Lillith]

Individual Pokemons were made for Subspace (Charizard at least) and I think maybe events? They all have their own CSS stuff in Brawl as well. The only problem aside from the lack of a Final Smash (That I'm aware of) is the lack of the down special.

[windhunter7]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this. I think I read all the rules so I think this is in the right place, sorry if it's not.

Anyhow, I recently set up Project M. I like how Pokemon Trainer has been split into the 3 Pokemon. However, I don't like that the Final Smash has been removed. I know it makes less sense for the Pokemon to use Triple Finish when they are no longer directly linked, but to me it's even more awkward gameplay-wise to have a Brawl with Smash Balls on where some people can use it but others (that is, anyone playing as Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard) just make the Smash Ball disappear if they break it. Honestly, I'd rather they just be able to still use Triple Finish while still being separate characters. If nothing else, I could just view them as calling their allies. Giving them their own individual smashes would be cool, but much more difficult.

Anyhow, I want to edit the Pokemon trio so that when they break the Smash Ball it functions normally instead of just disappearing, and they can use Triple Finish. However, this appears to be significantly more difficult than expected. Fixing Samus and Zero Suit Samus so they didn't transform after the Final Smash (because Iron Man turning into Mami Tomoe would be just weird) was straightforward. All I had to do was remove 'Terminate Instance:' in the pac files in a couple places (might remove a few more lines later to smooth out the animation). However, the Pokemon trio seems to be significantly more complicated. I don't know what the Project M devs did, but there's a lot more that needs to be fixed than the Fit[character].pac and Fit[character]MotionEtc.pac files. I tried putting in the original files from the Brawl ISO to replace the Project M ones, and removing them all to make it default to the original files to see what would happen. The original movesets were restored, but the Pokemon still couldn't switch between each other (not that I want that anyway), and breaking the Smash Ball still made it disappear, so obviously whatever edit the Project M devs made to make the Smash Ball ineffectual on those characters is not in those files.

My suspicion is that the edit in question is in ft_poke.rel. Though interestingly, when I tried replacing that file with its original or removing it, the game would crash when I loaded the Pokemon. Not sure why, as I don't know where else that kind of information on characters would be stored. Anyhow, turns out .rels are way harder to mess with than .pacs. BrawlBox won't open them, and they are entirely assembly language, which even if you understand assembly language, it's not the kind of thing you can skim to find what you are looking for like a higher order programming language. Everywhere I looked through Google, it seemed like just about everyone was clueless about how these files work. But there must be SOMEBODY who knows enough about them, because otherwise the Project M devs wouldn't be able to make this change in the first place.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone here has the know-how to edit the .rel files (I'm pretty sure I can handle the .pacs on my own) to undo the change in Project M that prevents the Pokemon trio from using the Smash Ball while still leaving them as separate characters and leaving it compatible with Project M. Or, if they could at the very least tell me the memory addresses that I would need to mess with, because finding what you need in assembly language is taxing, as the only real way to know what is going on most of the time is to read top to bottom. Maybe someone who worked on Project M?

If nobody knows how to do this I'll probably just give up, but I figured it was worth asking.

I think I recall Squirtle being the only one of the three with those codes to be able to still have Down-B and the Super-Smash.

[Archer(AkenoS3)]

(because Iron Man turning into Mami Tomoe would be just weird)

I love this part.

Anyway, I'd advise you to ask SonicBrawler and/or LeonExodio for that, since they're working on Sonic Heroes over PKMN Trainer. They added a Final Smash to Squirtle and they're working on adding the FS on the other 2.

[KingJigglypuff]

It's impossible to give the PM Pokemon the Triple Finish Final Smash as the PM Pokemon are separated from the Pokemon Trainer.

Though for individual Final Smashes, we're looking into it.

[Kyogre386]

It's impossible to give the PM Pokemon the Triple Finish Final Smash as the PM Pokemon are separated from the Pokemon Trainer.

Though for individual Final Smashes, we're looking into it.

Well, I presume if you find a way to make them capable of using Final Smashes at all, you could get them to use Triple Finish by just copying the code from Pokemon Trainer. Individual smashes are better anyway, but I certainly don't have the skills to make something like that. Though I doubt I'd be the only one interested in individual smashes.

What I'm wondering is what exactly happens in Brawl (not Project M) when a Pokemon (as Pokemon Trainer) breaks a Smash Ball. I don't know where exactly the code for that is located for other characters, but when you use the Pokemon in Brawl, I presume it's still executing the .pacs for the individual Pokemon (albeit as a subroutine), the main difference being certain actions (dying, Down B, getting the Smash Ball) would end up sending the flow back to the Pokemon Trainer's .pac file. I mean, I don't think the details for how each individual Pokemon behaves exists in the Pokemon Trainer's .pac, so I can only assume even in Brawl it's running the original Pokemon, even if as a subroutine. So if you hacked it to load the Pokemon by loading Pokemon Trainer and just hid him from view and ran the subroutine corresponding to the Pokemon selected in the CSS, I assume you'd still be able to access the Final Smashes, wouldn't you?

[SonicBrawler]

Though for individual Final Smashes, we're looking into it.

My Sonic Heroes PSA has this, so its possible.

[KingJigglypuff]

My Sonic Heroes PSA has this, so its possible.

Same goes for Tormod's Evolved Pokemon.

I said we're looking into it because currently nothing happens when a Pokemon breaks the Smash Ball in PM.

[SonicBrawler]

oh that. right. I might look into that too.