Metal Gear Solid Needs More Hack Representation!

[toastoftriumph]

Smoking idea: sounds okay, but it needs to be resolved regarding damage. One solution is after he smokes, he throws away the cigarette and eats a snack, which heals him. That might look out of place though, if the animation isn't great.

Magazine: no. Just no... it's too complicated and the idea doesn't fit in in the first place.

Camo: as long as he is partially visible. I HATE the completely invisible sheik thing in "Brawl-"  ...sure, it's a bit fun, but it's hard to predict attacks with it on, and makes the moveset broken.

[irishladdie727]

Smoking idea: sounds okay, but it needs to be resolved regarding damage. One solution is after he smokes, he throws away the cigarette and eats a snack, which heals him. That might look out of place though, if the animation isn't great.

Magazine: no. Just no... it's too complicated and the idea doesn't fit in in the first place.

Camo: as long as he is partially visible. I HATE the completely invisible sheik thing in "Brawl-"  ...sure, it's a bit fun, but it's hard to predict attacks with it on, and makes the moveset broken.

I'm also going to have to say "no, just no" to the snack.  Snake doesn't eat "snacks", he eats rations, like someone WHOSE BALLS HAVE DROPPED!  Seriously though, 1% of damage is nothing, especially if there's a chance to do some serious damage to your opponent if you aim it right.  I'm talking like 20-30% plus some knockback and fire damage.  This is the new rest attack.  By which I mean the vBrawl Rest attack which wasn't a one hit KO but was still pretty good.  It would be kind of dumb for him to heal himself right after gaining damage, it just makes it kind of pointless.  However, if these were Big Boss taunts, I would be all for a "snacking" one, provided that "snack" is A RAW [censored] SNAKE!  It's late... I'm sorry for the caps lock everyone.

[toastoftriumph]

just do the smoking one without damage then. That seems the best choice.

[Bent 00]

Smoking idea: sounds okay, but it needs to be resolved regarding damage. One solution is after he smokes, he throws away the cigarette and eats a snack, which heals him. That might look out of place though, if the animation isn't great.

Magazine: no. Just no... it's too complicated and the idea doesn't fit in in the first place.

Camo: as long as he is partially visible. I HATE the completely invisible sheik thing in "Brawl-"  ...sure, it's a bit fun, but it's hard to predict attacks with it on, and makes the moveset broken.

I'm also going to have to say "no, just no" to the snack.  Snake doesn't eat "snacks", he eats rations, like someone WHOSE BALLS HAVE DROPPED!  Seriously though, 1% of damage is nothing, especially if there's a chance to do some serious damage to your opponent if you aim it right.  I'm talking like 20-30% plus some knockback and fire damage.  This is the new rest attack.  By which I mean the vBrawl Rest attack which wasn't a one hit KO but was still pretty good.  It would be kind of dumb for him to heal himself right after gaining damage, it just makes it kind of pointless.  However, if these were Big Boss taunts, I would be all for a "snacking" one, provided that "snack" is A RAW [censored] SNAKE!  It's late... I'm sorry for the caps lock everyone.

Well said! I agree with everything except Snake smoking being "the new rest attack." It's a cigarette. It has no mystical hidden power. >_>

Aside from being a good taunt, damaging Snake 1%, and damaging opponents who come into contact with it ~3%, the only other thing I want to be able to do with the smoking taunt is get a funny or stylish KO with it, like finishing an opponent with the box. How can we do this? We could more or less copy the box KO... Any better ideas?

[LC-DDM]

Related to the smoking taunt, I was thinking that Snake could keep the cigarette (cigar if it's Naked Snake/Big Boss vertex) at the press of the taunt button, so he could fight with it. At the cost of taking a bit more damage (2/3%+ from an enemy attack, or standing idly for 60 seconds), he'd be slightly faster (slightly, I'm not talking Captain Falcon-esque or Sonic here, but an acceptable speed boost that isn't too fast to be unbalanced, but not too slow to be nerfed as ffff), and some some damage adjustments to some of his attacks (so we can have an RPG that doesn't do a low-damage ffff you to the opponent, but not make him a complete wimp), so he can remain the same Snake.

[Bent 00]

^ Consider this: Not one character in SSBB has a taunt that changes ANY attributes of a character (except Mario's size, briefly). Only Snake and Luigi have a taunt that can a very minor bit damage. Giving Snake another taunt which can inflict damage is already pushing it, balance-wise, especially considering all the other techniques Snake's tools give him. Making it so one of his taunts makes him even slightly faster is messing with balance that does not need to be tampered with.

I'm not saying all of these moveset-altering ideas are HORRIBLE, but let's focus ONLY ON TAUNTS for now, with the philosophy that taunts should not affect ANY other parts of a character's moveset or other attributes. We've seen what that can lead to, in Ganondorf's sword moveset, which disrupted his character balance pretty well.

Now, is anyone here capable of animating these taunts, or are we stuck with just wishful thinking?

[JOEYSX5]

Consider this about Snake with his cigarattes:

He smuggled them IN HIS STOMACH in MGS1. How did he get them out? He had to [censored] them out.
Based on this, it's quit obvious Snake likes his cigs so I think he needs them as his taunt.

What the hell are you talking about "snacks?" We are talking about a badass character here.
Irishladdie said it, Snake eats rations. Lol.

The idea of his cigs increasing his speed during battle is a cool idea since his cigs made him snipe better in MGS: TTS.
We sooo need somone to animate this stuff lol.

[Sytilac]

Consider this about Snake with his cigarattes:

He smuggled them IN HIS STOMACH in MGS1. How did he get them out? He had to [censored] them out.
Based on this, it's quit obvious Snake likes his cigs so I think he needs them as his taunt.

Off topic But I thought he threw them up

[Bent 00]

Smoking should not affect Snake's speed! It should be a self-contained taunt like the box.

At any rate, this discussion is useless until we find an animator and/or anyone else we need to make these new taunts a reality.

[JOEYSX5]

Off topic But I thought he threw them up

Heh, I had no idea about that. But still, if you like cigarattes that much he should use them in any game he is in.
Yep, this is mostly usless, need an animator QUICK!

[Eternal Yoshi]

I managed to stop him from going in the box somehow after a Taunt a while ago in one of my joke movesets, but I don't remember. Let me look for it.........

Can't find it, but you may have to put this in the taunts you don't want to end in the box:

Change Action=0, Requirement=Animation End

[Bent 00]

Hey guys, I posted this summary of what we've decided on so far over at the smashboards Customized Content board:

"Animator(s) Needed for Two new taunts for Snake"

Hi! Over at KC: MM, a few other guys and I have been discussing how Snake could use two new taunts. Having the box for all three is ridiculous if you ask us. Take a look at the discussion thread if you like:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=10695.msg227520#msg227520

In general, we've decided to go with a Salute and Smoking for Snake's new side taunt and down taunt, respectively. We want to keep the box up taunt since it's the fastest form of that taunt. Now we just need an animator or two, and anyone else with the technical knowhow needed to make these two new taunts a reality.

To elaborate:



The salute is meant to be a quick, no-nonsense taunt that doesn't last long at all but gets the point across. Snake should salute (with his right hand) in whichever direction he's facing, not towards the screen. Then again, perhaps saluting toward the player would make more sense than saluting the opponent...

I do wonder if there is a better quick taunt for Snake than a salute? In the MGS series, Snake is always pretty somber when he salutes, not sarcastic... IIRC. I've only played MGS: tTS. Feel free to make suggestions for a better quick, "taunty" kind of taunt.

The only other feasible taunt ideas we've thought of so far are Snake's Cloaking Device and the "!" alert... But the Cloaking Device is more functional than taunty, and the "!" makes more sense on enemy soldiers, since it mostly appeared over them in the MGS games (again, IIRC).



Smoking, the new down taunt, may be frowned upon by some (I did at first), but smoking is an iconic part of Snake's character, and there seems to be more support for it than opposition. We think that the Smoking taunt should be similar to the box taunt, in that after Snake smokes for a second or two, he should toss the cigarette behind him (we're undecided in what way exactly; over the shoulder? Underhanded?). Then again, tossing it in front of him could work just as well (that would be more "bad@$$" I suppose - imagine flicking the cigarette at an opponent struggling to recover and getting a Cig KO). Being so much lighter, I think tossed cigs should travel farther horizontally than the box does, unless a shorter range works better for Cig KOs.

Anyhow, the cigarette should inflict minor fire damage and knockback to opponents on contact. As a nod to the way smoking works in MGS - and to how harmful they are to your health - we think that the Smoking taunt should also inflict 1% damage to Snake whenever it's used. Also, since SSBB Snake looks a lot like Big Boss (Snake's "clone-daddy"), it should be noted that Big Boss preferred cigars, not cigarettes.

Ah, and one more thing:



If this is even possible, we'd like it a lot if Snake could move around while hiding under his box, and be able to stay under there until the A button is pressed or he is attacked. We also think it would be stealthy if Snake could drop C4 (or even Grenades) silently while he's under the box. He's never been able to drop such things like that in the MGS games, but it sounds like a fun idea.

Now, any animators out there willing to help us make Snake's new taunts?

[JOEYSX5]

Wow, nice thread Bent. But although Snake looks more like Big Boss, he's still Solid Snake. That's the point of me even working on the Twin Snakes Solid Snake for his main texture.

I really think his main texture needs to be changed to what I just mentioned since it looks retarded. Listen to what Friedslick6 said to me on xat.

I think Snake looks like a hobo for his Brawl look. Nintendo fused together MGS3 Big Boss and MGS2 Diving suit together, it's like the put the wrong face on or somthing... Thank you Terminator for fixing this with TTS texture.

Based on this, I think this needs to be changed. We can't just say "He looks like his father" he may so look like that in Brawl as his default texture, but it dosn't need to stay like that. If we start giving him Big Boss' personality to Snake like how Nintendo did, it won't turn out pretty. It would of been better for Big Boss to be ported seperately over Olimar. 
Besides, anyone should agree that Big Boss' face and MGS2 suit fused together looks retarded anyway.

Oh, and nice job Bent on the thread, the only question is Cigars or Cigarattes?  

[Nicki]

ITS NOT THE SAME THING! (sorry i needed to make reference)
uh cigarettes plz

[Bent 00]

Wow, nice thread Bent. But although Snake looks more like Big Boss, he's still Solid Snake.

Right, I was just pointing out Big Boss's cigar preference.

That's the point of me even working on the Twin Snakes Solid Snake for his main texture.

I really think his main texture needs to be changed to what I just mentioned since it looks retarded.

You mean this one?



Or this one?



That was the only Snake texture I saw in your Brawl Vault submissions. It looks like it would look better in the game... I'll download it and try it out soon.

Listen to what Friedslick6 said to me on xat.

I think Snake looks like a hobo for his Brawl look. Nintendo fused together MGS3 Big Boss and MGS2 Diving suit together, it's like the put the wrong face on or somthing... Thank you Terminator for fixing this with TTS texture.

Based on this, I think this needs to be changed. We can't just say "He looks like his father" he may so look like that in Brawl as his default texture, but it dosn't need to stay like that. If we start giving him Big Boss' personality to Snake like how Nintendo did, it won't turn out pretty. It would of been better for Big Boss to be ported seperately over Olimar. 
Besides, anyone should agree that Big Boss' face and MGS2 suit fused together looks retarded anyway.

Eh, I'm actually fine with how Snake currently looks... A MGS: tTS Snake looks may look better to some people, but I'm sure just as many prefer the default mix of Big Boss's face with Snake's diving suit.

Honestly, I'm going to have to reserve judgment until I see MGS: tTS textures in-game.

I disagree with replacing Olimar with Big Boss; One "Snake" is enough. However, it might be a good idea to use a Big Boss moveset for Snake's Clone Engine alternate (is that working now?)... Unless there's a better candidate. Snake does happen to be the base for several popular characters (Gordon Freeman and the Resident Evil 5 textures come to mind).

Oh, and nice job Bent on the thread, the only question is Cigars or Cigarattes?

Thanks. Hopefully it will attract the attention of a good animator or two.

Everyone should be able to pick and choose which textues they want to use.

Cigars or cigarettes? Probably cigarettes, since this is Solid Snake we're talking about. It would be nice if Big Boss textures could have cigars without affecting the other .pcs slots, but I'm guessing that won't work.