Metal Gear Solid Needs More Hack Representation!

[Bent 00]

If you haven't played Brawl +, the differences between it an vBrawl are only the kind that a pro or somebody paying attention would notice.  In other words, balance is just as fragile as it is in BBrawl and vBrawl.  Everybody is just a little bit quicker is the best way I can put it, it feels like Melee with Brawl techniques.  So yes, the cloaking device might be sort of OP.

I play Brawl+ and Brawl- nearly exclusively now, actually.

I haven't tried the Cloaking Device against human opponents yet, or had it used against me, so I don't know how broken it may be... But it doesn't feel that overpowered IMO:

"After some playtesting, I suppose having it so that shielding reveals Snake does make sense - it balances out the advantage of perfect invisibilty by discouraging you from shielding, opening up your defenses. Same deal with ledge-grabbing making Snake visible: Risk versus reward."

Wait for Eternal Yoshi's next release and playtest it yourself.

The one EXTREMELY cheap implementation I thought of , camping and spamming Nikitas, doesn't work because the Nikita is still visible.

That, and remember that Snake can't hide in big levels, or even medium sized levels. The player tag almost always points out his location, unless the camera is zoomed in really close.

All in all I was kind of against this taunt because it's too much of a game changer for me, but it's still very cool, I just doubt any mods will adopt it officially because giving total invisibility to any character is game breaking, no matter how easy it is to make them visible again. It's not that hard to avoid getting hit as Snake.

Have you playtested the Cloak against human opponents yourself? It's really not as broken as you might think, IMO. Plus, we're still working on it.

Also, I realize this is a little bit more work on our end, but why not just release the individual taunts separately and have the downloader pick and choose? Or do they all have to be part of one file?

We could do that, but I think it's best to have two distinct packs (Basic and Stealth), and hopefully have each big Brawl mod/group (vBrawl, B+, B-, BB, & P: M) adopt one or the other, so the new taunts won't cause desynchronization because of players having different taunts on Snake.

[LC-DDM]

That, and remember that Snake can't hide in big levels, or even medium sized levels. The player tag almost always points out his location, unless the camera is zoomed in really close.

You can't predict what attack the opponent is going to do though, so it always leaves you with a window of doubt and the opponent with a window of opportunity.

[Eternal Yoshi]

http://www.mediafire.com/?e73yujpv67ivznx
The smoking is the side taunt now.

Basically the basic pack.

[Bent 00]

You can't predict what attack the opponent is going to do though, so it always leaves you with a window of doubt and the opponent with a window of opportunity.

Fair enough - but has anyone actually playtested the Cloak against human opponents yet?

[JOEYSX5]

A new update coming soon for my "Metal Gear Solid finally comes to Brawl pack!" I'm ready to do it, but first I will just keep Eternal Yoshi's Stealth Camo taunt version, and update it with my texture fixes, etc. Later I will update it again with the fully finished Snake taunts once they come out. The update will include:

-Added the custom taunts
-New textures to Snake's C4, Mortar, RPG-7, and more Motion files.
-Fixed those purple triangles on MGS:TTS Snake's back, along with more texture updates.
-Fixed a glitch I had with selecting Snake's textures on the CSS, imma just port the textures and model into a clean FitSnake0#.pcs file.
-Alot more lol
   
Update should be somtime today.

[irishladdie727]

EternalYoshi, you are a god.  Let's all have a round of internet applause! "claps"  That said, I find the cloaking kind of pointless.  It's really easy to find Snake and punish him, pretty much as easy as if he were visible, although I guess that makes it not broken...?  There are probably only a handful of stages where the player tag doesn't follow you around, and those are so small as to make invisibility pretty worthless since you're just going to be constantly bumping into each other.  Unless you can find a way to temporarily get rid of the player tag, I'd say this one's as good as it's going to get and we should move on to the walking box taunt.

[toastoftriumph]

As minor as the cloaking device may seem, there are always going to be those few situations that disrupt normal, fair gameplay. Personally I dislike PSAs with invisibility; however, if there is a way to give a slight translucent layer on top of Snake, that would be perfectly fine.

[Friedslick6]

I think that's a very good idea. We could even make that translucent layer a cool green for the MGS:TTS Snake.

[irishladdie727]

I think that's a very good idea. We could even make that translucent layer a cool green for the MGS:TTS Snake.

It's a cool green in every game, except maybe Guns of the Patriots, I haven't played that one.

[Eternal Yoshi]

An update for the basic pack.
http://www.mediafire.com/?i79a5ia3a01a25d

Their servers are shaky tonight so beware.

[Bent 00]

That said, I find the cloaking kind of pointless.  It's really easy to find Snake and punish him, pretty much as easy as if he were visible, although I guess that makes it not broken...?

Don't underestimate it. As LC-DDM said:

You can't predict what attack the opponent is going to do though, so it always leaves you with a window of doubt and the opponent with a window of opportunity.

That is balanced out by the fact that Snake becomes visible if he shields or ledgegrabs, which encourages the Snake player to keep his or her defenses open... I'd still say Snake has the upper hand with perfect invisibility, but we can only know how broken or balanced it is for sure by playtesting it against human opponents, which - as far as I know - no one has done yet. :/

There are probably only a handful of stages where the player tag doesn't follow you around, and those are so small as to make invisibility pretty worthless since you're just going to be constantly bumping into each other. Unless you can find a way to temporarily get rid of the player tag, I'd say this one's as good as it's going to get and we should move on to the walking box taunt.

Having invisibility remove the player tag would definitely make the Cloaking Device broken. Plus, it would be hard for the Snake player to know where Snake is. >_>

As minor as the cloaking device may seem, there are always going to be those few situations that disrupt normal, fair gameplay. Personally I dislike PSAs with invisibility; however, if there is a way to give a slight translucent layer on top of Snake, that would be perfectly fine.

I think that's a very good idea. We could even make that translucent layer a cool green for the MGS:TTS Snake.

Unfortunately, I believe someone said earlier that only perfect invisibility is possible in Brawl.

I agree, it would have been a cool effect, but it would have knocked the Cloaking Device down from being useful to being a mere novelty.

(actually, there are codes for on-the-fly texture switching now (3P+ matches only) - I wonder if the Cloaking Device taunt could trigger a change to a mostly transparent Snake texture, with some kind of light green or clear distortion effect... It's most likely not feasible for now.)

[irishladdie727]

That is balanced out by the fact that Snake becomes visible if he shields or ledgegrabs, which encourages the Snake player to keep his or her defenses open... I'd still say Snake has the upper hand with perfect invisibility, but we can only know how broken or balanced it is for sure by playtesting it against human opponents, which - as far as I know - no one has done yet.

Actually, I've been both an invisible player and fought against an invisible Snake, that's where I was getting my impressions from.

Unfortunately, I believe someone said earlier that only perfect invisibility is possible in Brawl.

I agree, it would have been a cool effect, but it would have knocked the Cloaking Device down from being useful to being a mere novelty.

(actually, there are codes for on-the-fly texture switching now (3P+ matches only) - I wonder if the Cloaking Device taunt could trigger a change to a mostly transparent Snake texture, with some kind of light green or clear distortion effect...)

 I made exactly that a few pages back.  However, it doesn't work in game for some reason, it only shows up in Brawlbox right now, and it's very much visible.

Also... The smoking taunt coulduse some work.  Don't use any actual flame effects...  It looks like Snake is breathing fire, and then it just looks like his face and hand are on fire.  I suppose that's one way to illustrate the danger of cigarettes but it's not really what I had in mind.  The actual animation is terrific but the effects need work.  Just a quick flash implying its being lit and then a dull orange glow for the remainder of the taunt.

[JOEYSX5]

I'm thinking it would be cool if I made a Bullet Proof vest texture for my MGS:TTS Snake, the one he found in the Boiler Room in the Twin Snakes.
I got the vest textures and everything, I'm already working on it.

[Bent 00]

Actually, I've been both an invisible player and fought against an invisible Snake, that's where I was getting my impressions from.

Oh, you've playtested it against human opponents? I'm sorry for my assumption that you had not. So does what you said earlier...

That said, I find the cloaking kind of pointless.  It's really easy to find Snake and punish him, pretty much as easy as if he were visible, although I guess that makes it not broken...?  There are probably only a handful of stages where the player tag doesn't follow you around, and those are so small as to make invisibility pretty worthless since you're just going to be constantly bumping into each other.  Unless you can find a way to temporarily get rid of the player tag, I'd say this one's as good as it's going to get and we should move on to the walking box taunt.

...sum up what you think of how the CD affects gameplay and balance?

So far, you're the only one who thinks it doesn't make much of a difference, and LC-DDM is the only one who thinks it's overpowered (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone).

Personally, I think it's pretty balanced.

Also... The smoking taunt coulduse some work.  Don't use any actual flame effects...  It looks like Snake is breathing fire, and then it just looks like his face and hand are on fire.  I suppose that's one way to illustrate the danger of cigarettes but it's not really what I had in mind.  The actual animation is terrific but the effects need work.  Just a quick flash implying its being lit and then a dull orange glow for the remainder of the taunt.

Have you tried version 0.5? It's much improved. Check this page for details and pics:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11214150#post11214150

I'm thinking it would be cool if I made a Bullet Proof vest texture for my MGS:TTS Snake, the one he found in the Boiler Room in the Twin Snakes.
I got the vest textures and everything, I'm already working on it.

If it's as good as your MGS: tTS Snake, it aught to be excellent. That's the blue vest I was thinking of a while back... Looking forward to seeing in Brawl.

BTW, to everyone here, there have been lots of new posts over at the smashboards thread - too much for me to paraphrase for you! Just check out these two pages instead:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285246&page=8

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285246&page=9

[JOEYSX5]

The vest textures are almost done, I delayed the update JUST to make it.

Thankfully I got the textures. Imma port the vest over TTS Snake I made.