[NEW] Project Zero - READ PAGE 10, REPLY #139

[Sajiao Omelette]

Eldrian tried to move the polygon, I think, but it didn't work out. Unless I am mistaken. I think I remember him saying that attempting to move the polygon to his hand caused a fatal error or something.

Anyhow, Sumire. Zero has three different Z-Saber hilts in TvC. The two on his back (for the sprite mirroring effect they do with the 3D models in TvC) and the one that includes the Saber's "Blade", which is a separate article. Which we have. When Zero uses his L•M•H combo in TvC both hilt polygons are turned off.

In gist: We probably need to use the Z-Saber as a separate article, but that means that Zero's hand bone maybe has the properties of a HaveN seeing as he can hold it in TvC, so we may not need to do anything to it other than renaming it...or something.

----------------------

After playing against someone in TvC, here is what I noticed.

• Characters like Zero, and Saki, who have things like the Z-Saber and her Gun. Since Zero has his Z-Saber as a separate article and Saki's gun is a separate article (seen on a Zamus hack) we can assume that the hand bones have HaveN-like properties already programmed into them. This does not, however, explain how come Zero has three sets of bones that serve can serve the same function (The Ken bones attached to his hands (2) and the ones the Z-Saber article has (1).

• All characters can grab other characters and throw them. This means that one of their bones somewhere carries the same properties as ThrowN if I am not mistaken. This is just theory though. I think that the OBJ bone maybe the bone that that acts as the ThrowN, but I cannot be sure.

•All characters can move, which means one of the bones carries TransN properties. Dingo has informed me that Zero's TransN equivalent is his 55th bone in the bone tree. I believe this bone is the bone named "Z", for the Z-Axis.

We should have someone who can look into this and see which bones have these properties( for the ones we are not aware of).

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I maent to replace Link's Navi with the Z-Saber and then do this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9322162&postcount=1150

Um... this is probably completely false and misleading, but Link has multiple hlits and other people like Lucas and Ness have their bats and stuff attached to their model, but they don't show up unless you use the Model Changer code in PSA... maybe you can see if there is an Unknown value for those polygons and experiment with it so you can try to do it with Zero?

Whichever bone is Zero's left and right hands or his TransN or HipN, you can just use Tabuu to change the values from Link's original values to what Zero would need.

[Velen]

Eldrian tried to move the polygon, I think, but it didn't work out. Unless I am mistaken. I think I remember him saying that attempting to move the polygon to his hand caused a fatal error or something.

Anyhow, Sumire. Zero has three different Z-Saber hilts in TvC. The two on his back (for the sprite mirroring effect they do with the 3D models in TvC) and the one that includes the Saber's "Blade", which is a separate article. Which we have. When Zero uses his L•M•H combo in TvC both hilt polygons are turned off.

In gist: We probably need to use the Z-Saber as a separate article, but that means that Zero's hand bone maybe has the properties of a HaveN seeing as he can hold it in TvC, so we may not need to do anything to it other than renaming it...or something.

----------------------

After playing against someone in TvC, here is what I noticed.

• Characters like Zero, and Saki, who have things like the Z-Saber and her Gun. Since Zero has his Z-Saber as a separate article and Saki's gun is a separate article (seen on a Zamus hack) we can assume that the hand bones have HaveN-like properties already programmed into them. This does not, however, explain how come Zero has three sets of bones that serve can serve the same function (The Ken bones attached to his hands (2) and the ones the Z-Saber article has (1).

• All characters can grab other characters and throw them. This means that one of their bones somewhere carries the same properties as ThrowN if I am not mistaken. This is just theory though. I think that the OBJ bone maybe the bone that that acts as the ThrowN, but I cannot be sure.

•All characters can move, which means one of the bones carries TransN properties. Dingo has informed me that Zero's TransN equivalent is his 55th bone in the bone tree. I believe this bone is the bone named "Z", for the Z-Axis.

We should have someone who can look into this and see which bones have these properties( for the ones we are not aware of).

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I maent to replace Link's Navi with the Z-Saber and then do this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9322162&postcount=1150

Um... this is probably completely false and misleading, but Link has multiple hlits and other people like Lucas and Ness have their bats and stuff attached to their model, but they don't show up unless you use the Model Changer code in PSA... maybe you can see if there is an Unknown value for those polygons and experiment with it so you can try to do it with Zero?

Whichever bone is Zero's left and right hands or his TransN or HipN, you can just use Tabuu to change the values from Link's original values to what Zero would need.

Two problems.

•I dunno the Hex programming language and need to learn it.

•I don't have Tabuu on me.

The problem with what you're thinking Sumire is that Zero has no Z-Saber hilt polygons attached to his model that are attached to his hands in BrawlBox. He isn't like Link who has a sword in the hilt and one in his hand, (or like Ness and Lucas who have their weapons attached to their hands in Brawlbox) and you can't change in a model that doesn't exist.

Also, the Z-Saber hilts attached to Zero's breast bone has no blade polygon, if it did, there would be no need for the separate article, which has a blade polygon, and it would probably have bones you could move it with. So I think it is unlikely. Zero also doesn't already have his Z-Saber in the FitLink.pac we're using (if I am not mistaken).

Which hand is Navi attached to? It needs to be his left hand.

[Sajiao Omelette]

Hmm... I see...

Navi isn't attached to anything, I think, it's the thingy that flies around him in his side taunt.

So what you do is go to 26974 in a hex editor in Link's PAC and then there should be... a number... just change it to the bone index of Zero's hand, and it should be attached there!

Remember to replace the Navi model and textures with the Z Saber's.

And get rid of the animation so it doesn't alway fly around and stuff...

Also remember to add Generate Article in PSA.

You should try to follow this little mini guide thingy to know how to fix bone references in Tabuu.

And get Tabuu here.

[Velen]

Hmm... I see...

Navi isn't attached to anything, I think, it's the thingy that flies around him in his side taunt.

So what you do is go to 26974 in a hex editor in Link's PAC and then there should be... a number... just change it to the bone index of Zero's hand, and it should be attached there!

Remember to replace the Navi model and textures with the Z Saber's.

And get rid of the animation so it doesn't alway fly around and stuff...

Also remember to add Generate Article in PSA.

You should try to follow this little mini guide thingy to know how to fix bone references in Tabuu.

And get Tabuu here.

The only other concern I have is file size. How badly will this affect it?

[Sajiao Omelette]

Link has a TON TON TON of room.

Plus, this doesn't affect it at all.

[Velen]

Link has a TON TON TON of room.

Plus, this doesn't affect it at all.

Alright, but one more question, cause it has been bugging me a bit.

Why put the Z-Saber over Navi? I want your reasoning.

[Sajiao Omelette]

Alright, but one more question, cause it has been bugging me a bit.

Why put the Z-Saber over Navi? I want your reasoning.

The Navi's really simple, just a... thingy that does nothing.

The rest of Link's articles all have very complex behavior, such as his boomerang and the arrows, making them a lot harder to work with.

Also, because the Navi is an article, you can easily attach it to a bone and have it stay there.

[Velen]

Alright, but one more question, cause it has been bugging me a bit.

Why put the Z-Saber over Navi? I want your reasoning.

The Navi's really simple, just a... thingy that does nothing.

The rest of Link's articles all have very complex behavior, such as his boomerang and the arrows, making them a lot harder to work with.

Also, because the Navi is an article, you can easily attach it to a bone and have it stay there.

Okay, but that brings up another question. If it is simply something that does nothing of real importance, then how do we make it have hitboxes? PSA I assume, but is it possible to give Navy a hitbox?

[Sajiao Omelette]

Okay, but that brings up another question. If it is simply something that does nothing of real importance, then how do we make it have hitboxes? PSA I assume, but is it possible to give Navy a hitbox?

The same way you would before.

Just attach hitboxes to Zero's hand. Use Brawlbox translations to make sure that you've chosen the right translations to make them aligned with the Z Saber.

In short, you can't really, you just have to make hitboxes that go where the Z Saber goes.

Or you can try going to Subroutines and entering 105B8, which is the hex offset of the Navi's AppealS subaction and trying to attach a graphic there, although that probably won't work because you couldn't really turn it off and it probably won't work anyways... try the first one, hitboxes on top of the Navi.

[Velen]

Okay, but that brings up another question. If it is simply something that does nothing of real importance, then how do we make it have hitboxes? PSA I assume, but is it possible to give Navy a hitbox?

The same way you would before.

Just attach hitboxes to Zero's hand. Use Brawlbox translations to make sure that you've chosen the right translations to make them aligned with the Z Saber.

In short, you can't really, you just have to make hitboxes that go where the Z Saber goes.

Or you can try going to Subroutines and entering 105B8, which is the hex offset of the Navi's AppealS subaction and trying to attach a graphic there, although that probably won't work because you couldn't really turn it off and it probably won't work anyways... try the first one, hitboxes on top of the Navi.

Well, then we have a problem. We need a hitbox to be on the Saber's blade when Zero slashes. Also, the Z-Saber's blade will be curving when Zero swings it.

To illustrate this more easily, look at these.

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/X/Zello/X4-X5/

Also. Here is a picture of the separate article with bones toggled on.

[Sajiao Omelette]

Well, then we have a problem. We need a hitbox to be on the Saber's blade when Zero slashes. Also, the Z-Saber's blade will be curving when Zero swings it.

To illustrate this more easily, look at these.

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/X/Zello/X4-X5/

Also. Here is a picture of the separate article with bones toggled on.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/Beren-Zaiga/Screenshot2010-09-11at105832PM.png

If the Z Saber isn't part of his model, then there's no way to attach a hibox to it... I think... and how are you going to get it to curve like that...

[Velen]

We can get it to curve like that by increasing the Y-size values to lengthen the blade and then using (or so I assume) the Z-Rot values of the blade make it have a working sword trace somehow. It will simulate the effect by doing that.

I noticed however that the polygons on the Saber's beam blade will need shaping up a bit, it also appears to be floating above the ground when brought up over the Beam Sword.

...We need more people besides me and HZ to do this.

*Goes to get Tabuu.*

[Mr. Nice guy]

Wow.. you guys are really into dis XD

[Velen]

Wow.. you guys are really into dis XD

Well, I do want it to get done, and I want to eliminate as many uncertainties as possible before I move forward with editting Zero.

Also, the Z-Saber has a HaveN bone, so there is a good chance that Zero's hands have HaveN like properties.

[Sajiao Omelette]

Wait... the sword has a HaveN... >_>

What do you mean by "HaveN properties" ...

Any bone can be your HaveN... you can hold items by your waist or head or whatever...

There aren't really special bones with special properties, it's the references that carry those properties.