Brawlbox Resources & History

[Don Jon Bravo]

Hey there, Melpontro of Sonic Retro and myself are working on importing high-poly models into Sonic Colors, obviously for use in Dolphin, and we've come across a very curious error. As you can see, in these two screenshots the model looks perfectly fine:

But here, the model obviously has some... problems.



(From now on, all images will be put in spoiler tags so as not to create visual clutter.)

Now, you might be saying, "Well Chimera, those models are extremely high poly. Surely you would expect the models to not function right?" To which I reply, "yes, but as evidenced by the following screenshots, polycount doesn't seem to be a problem with enemies..."

How many polys are these enemies? Around 6K. Now, there's 17 enemies on screen... That's 102K polys of enemies! And as you can see, the only model showing issues is Sonic; none of the other enemies are showing any signs of issues. You may be thinking "Ok... But Sonic's more detailed than those robots, isn't he?" True, but Olympic Games' Shadow the Hedgehog model isn't.

To put it in perspective, that model is 5010 polygons. 5K polygons. And it's still breaking! And the 6K poly robots? Working just fine. This is significant, especially since Sonic in Colors is one of the more detailed models still, and his polycount is around 4900. That's almost 5K polys! And Shadow still breaks. It would be weird for a polygon limit to only apply to the main character model and nothing else. What's stranger? All these model tests work in the same areas and break in the same areas too, with or without the higher-poly robots. Even the start of PLANET WISP, with hundreds of polygon cards on screen, doesn't cause the model to freak out. Take a look:

Though, curiously, his model DOES break in his starting animation... And only in his starting animation. And only with his hands.

Note: this model is 15K polygons. Notice how it doesn't break as much as Generations Sonic.



So, here's the question: Has anyone ever experienced this with any other games? And if so, has it been fixed? Is this a problem with brawlbox, perhaps? Or do you think the game just has a hardcoded vertex/polygon limit for the main character?

Thanks,
-Chimera.

does it happen in brawlbox too?
anyways u might wanna check this out
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=55397.msg1085431#msg1085431

[Spex130]

I'm glad someone's jumping on that. When I started modding Colors Brawlbox was still breaking even trying to import and replace Colors Models. I never got anywhere, lol.

[JoeTE]

Since we're now talking about Sonic Colors, I want to bring up a few things (since I also know of the problems being mentioned.)

I do know that Sonic's model has some extra flags that I haven't seen in any other model before... but that's all I know. So there's something that has to be investigated.

Changing those flags doesn't fix that problem. I tired importing a slightly lower-poly version of Shadow's Generations model, I changed all of the flags to match Sonic's original model, and still got the vertex problem.

It definitely seems to be a hard-coded vertex/poly limit. Around a year ago, I re-imported Super Sonic's model (as in, export to .DAE, change a few things in 3DS Max, export it to a new .DAE, and import it with Brawlbox,) and never had that problem (and that was before I learned about those flags.)

As far as Colors modding goes, I just wish I wasn't getting this one problem where saving player_sonic.brres after making ANY changes ends up corrupting the .scn0 files in it. I've know about it for almost a year, but never brought it up because I was assuming it was just a .scn0 compatibility problem in general (rather than a colors-specific one,) and hoping that Brawlbox 0.68's better .scn0 support would have fixed it.

I'm glad someone's jumping on that. When I started modding Colors Brawlbox was still breaking even trying to import and replace Colors Models. I never got anywhere, lol.

You probably encountered that .scn0 corruption thing I mentioned above.

does it happen in brawlbox too?

That's the thing. It DOESN'T happen in Brawlbox.
It only happens in-game, and how much it happens depends on where you are in the game.

[Chimera]

JoeTE pretty much covered our responses, though oddly we've never experienced the problem with .SCN0 files...

Regardless, thanks everyone! Seems like it's just a hardcoded polygon limit for the character. It'd be nice if we could find a workaround. Just sad to see this only seems to happen to Sonic and not the enemies.

[SuperrSonic]

Will BB be able to edit other things in RSAR like change brstm names or add more ids/externals?
If we could edit that stuff the Custom Sound Engine would no longer be needed.

[BlackJax96]

So does BB v0.68c still corrupt sonic colors SCN0?

Will BB be able to edit other things in RSAR like change brstm names or add more ids/externals?
If we could edit that stuff the Custom Sound Engine would no longer be needed.

Once I understand how to generate the SYMB entry ids.

[Segtendo]

That. Would be. The tits.

[DSX8]

Will BB be able to edit other things in RSAR like change brstm names or add more ids/externals?
If we could edit that stuff the Custom Sound Engine would no longer be needed.

ok that would be really awesome to have..

[BlackJax96]

I made my own timer for rendering at a certain FPS. I'm using it for THPs and running animations in the model viewer. So FINALLY the model viewer will actually render at the exact FPS you have set on the playback panel. That was bothering me for a while.

The timer is called CoolTimer cuz it's so cool.

[DSX8]

I made my own timer for rendering at a certain FPS. I'm using it for THPs and running animations in the model viewer. So FINALLY the model viewer will actually render at the exact FPS you have set on the playback panel. That was bothering me for a while.

The timer is called CoolTimer cuz it's so cool.

awesome, thats good to hear. would be nice if there was something that can make a chr0 slower, and if saved, it'll extend the chr0 frames to the speed u have it set for (v5 chr0's r like 2x slower in their own games compared to brawl and the such)

[ForOhFor Error]

The timer is called CoolTimer cuz it's so cool.

[the_randomizer]

Okay, there is a serious issue in Brawl Box 0.68 when it comes to BRSTM creation and when you upload them to brawlcustommusic.com. The files uploaded to that site have static in the right audio channel, but when played back on Brawl Box 0.67 and 0.68, they sound perfectly normal. I know 0.68 is responsible because I tested a BRSTM I made from 0.67 and it had no such issues. I don't know what is causing this, but it's rather baffling.

[timehacker11]

I'm receiving the following error whenever I try to export a sound effect from MKWii in the "SE" folder of the BRSAR:

System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at System.Audio.WAV.ToFile(IAudioStream source, String path)

Any ideas?

[BlackJax96]

Okay, there is a serious issue in Brawl Box 0.68 when it comes to BRSTM creation and when you upload them to brawlcustommusic.com. The files uploaded to that site have static in the right audio channel, but when played back on Brawl Box 0.67 and 0.68, they sound perfectly normal. I know 0.68 is responsible because I tested a BRSTM I made from 0.67 and it had no such issues. I don't know what is causing this, but it's rather baffling.

"The files uploaded to that site have static in the right audio channel, but when played back on Brawl Box 0.67 and 0.68, they sound perfectly normal."

wat
How is this a problem with Brawlbox? Am I somehow misunderstanding my native language or what.
Do you want static?

I'm receiving the following error whenever I try to export a sound effect from MKWii in the "SE" folder of the BRSAR:

System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at System.Audio.WAV.ToFile(IAudioStream source, String path)

Any ideas?

Those aren't WAVE files; they're SEQ files, so of course you can't export them as a wave. There's no sound to export.
Don't bring up converting SEQ files to .mid, you smart people.

[the_randomizer]

"The files uploaded to that site have static in the right audio channel, but when played back on Brawl Box 0.67 and 0.68, they sound perfectly normal."

wat
How is this a problem with Brawlbox? Am I somehow misunderstanding my native language or what.
Do you want static?

Those aren't WAVE files; they're SEQ files, so of course you can't export them as a wave. There's no sound to export.
Don't bring up converting SEQ files to .mid, you smart people.

I don't know, but when I upload BRSTMs I created in 0.67b, they sound fine after being uploaded. The fact there's static in 0.68 and not 0.67b tells me something is amiss. It's not a fault of the site, I know that because I create the same file from both version and uploaded them to the site. The one from 0.68 had static, the one from 0.67b did not.

I don't want static, but I shouldn't have to go back to 0.67 to avoid making a BRSTM that has static in the right audio channel. Again, I have compared tests and I assure you that BRSTMs made in 0.68 cannot be uploaded to brawl custom music without there being any static; using 0.67 or 0.67b avoids the issue. Something is broken when BRSTM files are exported.

Summary:

Create BRSTM of X game in BBox 0.67b, upload to Brawl Custom Music, no static
Create BRSTM in X game BBox0.68, upload to Brawl Custom Music, static in right audio channel

The fact that 0.67 sounds fine but making the same one in 0.68 just doesn't seem right.  I honestly don't know how to explain it better, but it is a glitch, something is breaking during exportation.

I can provide audio files if you need them for comparison.