KJP's Throne Room. 09/08/2019: Fighting Alloy Team Pack Update

[KingJigglypuff]

I know Megaman X had a boomarang-like attack...But I don't know the name of it. >.<

Oh the neutral special. Obviously the mega buster? Do you plan on making his abilities change through taunts like you did with sexy Carchar?

I'm not too sure.

... No, no, no. D:

this o.O

The people have spoken. o.O

Wait..What?? Megaman X over Toon Link? LIES

Nope. No lies. :af:

arent megaman all like energy only i think eletric should be the more obvious

Alright.

[ItalianStallion]

this o.O

What the [censored]?

this o.O

What the [censored]?

This.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Would you guys actually care to evaluate on what was wrong with Mr Italiano's idea?  I don't know enough about X myself, but you guys literally just said "no" without any sort of reasoning. 

Now I know that X and Megaman are very different characters, but one thing that I really liked about EY's Megaman was his ability to change specials using another special.  I don't think taunts would suit X that well, as it would come off as rather corny for this kind of hack but I think assigning something like that to a special could work, as it encourages it to be a more integral part to his gameplay. 

The main things I know about X are these tbh:

- He focuses a lot on his blaster.  Much more so than Zero.  That means, this should be his main projectile and one that offers a lot of freedom and diversity.  Look at how Zero's Hyper Zero Blaster works in UMvC3 (not Vanilla) and see how it is able to cancel from other specials.  Maybe this could be incorporated in some way?

- Like Zero, he would have quite a strong focus on his dash and wall cling as well.  These should definitely be programmed in.

- One last main thing that X focuses on is armour upgrades.  I'm not sure how this would be applied, but an upgrade system would be pretty cool.  You start off weak, but get stronger as the fight progresses.  Either that or it could be assigned to a special and act as a very slow and punishable move that levels X up maybe? 


Thing you gotta question is how does he plays in his games and as a result how should he play in Smash? 

[_Data_Drain_]

Honestly... I think it's because Wolfric said that having so many move options is too much for a balanced character or something? (Heck, he's still not happy with that Sephiroth move set, probably for a similar reason.)

Eh, not 100% sure myself, but it shouldn't be taunt activated at least. It should be his down B or something.

Though honestly... I'd say we wait for MK to give his ideas on X before we start coming up with stuff.

[Albafika]

Honestly... I think it's because Wolfric said that having so many move options is too much for a balanced character or something? (Heck, he's still not happy with that Sephiroth move set, probably for a similar reason.)

Eh, not 100% sure myself, but it shouldn't be taunt activated at least. It should be his down B or something.

Though honestly... I'd say we wait for MK to give his ideas on X before we start coming up with stuff.

This.

I'd really like to see MK's input on X, as well. I know he's busy, but I wish he'd at least throw out his moveset ideas.

Would you guys actually care to evaluate on what was wrong with Mr Italiano's idea?  I don't know enough about X myself, but you guys literally just said "no" without any sort of reasoning.  

Having different movesets by taunting will make the moveset harder to balance and will make the moveset harder to "understand" for an opponent unfamiliar with it. (Having 4 Special attacks is what all in the vBrawl roster have, having 5 is acceptable, since it's not that much of a difference, but 6 or 7 would make him feel out of place against the retail roster.

- He focuses a lot on his blaster.  Much more so than Zero.

Zero hardly uses his blaster. X, on the other hand, only uses the blaster (Although in X3, he was able to use the Sword as the last hit of the fully charged blaster, and if I recall correctly, in X6, too), but for the rest, he's relied on blaster and techniques stolen from his enemies (Which also consists in different blasters). You may think of him as Kirby, with the difference that X needs to kill the opponent to gain his power. (Which, I doubt this'd fit, he could be made pretty neat with his armor upgrade moves/different blasters).

- One last main thing that X focuses on is armour upgrades.&nbsp; I&#039;m not sure how this would be applied, but an upgrade system would be pretty cool.&nbsp; You start off weak, but get stronger as the fight progresses.&nbsp; Either that or it could be assigned to a special and act as a very slow and punishable move that levels X up maybe?&nbsp;

Now this part here sounds interesting, I'd like to hear some ideas as to how this would work... Hmm... And for the armor to show... I'd need them to be made.... Wouldn't that consume too much space?

[AGFanProduction]

Honestly... I think it's because Wolfric said that having so many move options is too much for a balanced character or something? (Heck, he's still not happy with that Sephiroth move set, probably for a similar reason.)

Eh, not 100% sure myself, but it shouldn't be taunt activated at least. It should be his down B or something.

Though honestly... I'd say we wait for MK to give his ideas on X before we start coming up with stuff.

I think would be good to create two versions of the Moveset a version *balanced* with only the basic animations for the character and another version with enabled *taunt* switch of specials, so every person can have what their want.... just saying :3

[_Data_Drain_]

I think would be good to create two versions of the Moveset a version *balanced* with only the basic animations for the character and another version with enabled *taunt* switch of specials, so every person can have what their want.... just saying :3

Priority should be taken with the balanced one though.

If you looked at Sephiroth's PSA progress. People demanded MANY DIFFERENT versions of him... One with like... Flight as up B... One with... An up B similar to Marth's (the best one mind you.) And one with... BOTH! And why stop there?!? And overpowered version of all of them too!!!!

...

Pretty much, my point is, it takes a hell of a lot of time to update all the move sets made, hence why Sephiroth took so long to be even where he is now.

Long story short, no. It takes too much time to deal with for future updates... He should stick strictly to the one move set version.

[AGFanProduction]

Priority should be taken with the balanced one though.

If you looked at Sephiroth's PSA progress. People demanded MANY DIFFERENT versions of him... One with like... Flight as up B... One with... An up B similar to Marth's (the best one mind you.) And one with... BOTH! And why stop there?!? And overpowered version of all of them too!!!!

...

Pretty much, my point is, it takes a hell of a lot of time to update all the move sets made, hence why Sephiroth took so long to be even where he is now.

Long story short, no. It takes too much time to deal with for future updates... He should stick strictly to the one move set version.

Well, I think its a good Idea have a conversation in a chat [Maybe here] or somewhere with everyone so there we or all of you can discuss about which Animations/Attacks are going to be used for the *Alpha* hack, or it will get out of control just like the original Project Mewtwo as an example.
"First everyone with one simple idea then another guy suggests something better and someone from the team starts working on it while another team member is working in the original idea" [just to give an example] and yeah maybe when the *Alpha and default PSA* gets released people can go to their side projects, adding to the PSA what they want. just my suggestion again... :3

[KingJigglypuff]

I think I should wait a bit for MK's ideas.
...
But for his boomerang attack (I'm certain he has one, I just don't know what it's called. >.<) I recolored Toon Link's boomerang with colors matching Megaman X. And I have done the following:
-After the boomerang has been thrown, he can preform Zero's dash move until he gets the boomerang back.
-In the air, the Dash has a 1/3 chance of making X go into helpless.
I still have yet to edit the PSA part of the projectile. I'm still stuck on if I should make it multi-hit or just make it have a single hit.

[_Data_Drain_]

I think I should wait a bit for MK's ideas.
...
But for his boomerang attack (I'm certain he has one, I just don't know what it's called. >.<) I recolored Toon Link's boomerang with colors matching Megaman X. And I have done the following:
-After the boomerang has been thrown, he can preform Zero's dash move until he gets the boomerang back.
-In the air, the Dash has a 1/3 chance of making X go into helpless.
I still have yet to edit the PSA part of the projectile. I'm still stuck on if I should make it multi-hit or just make it have a single hit.

Yeah, you should wait for MK's ideas before even starting the move set. Also... A "chance" of going into free fall with side B? That sounds... Too random, like tripping in Brawl...

Again, wait for MK's ideas, they should be Brawl like, AND balanced... Much like Waluigi.

[Master_Ryuk]

Mmmm... don't like the chance of getting helpless, i guess it will led to heavy frustration. You should reduce or delete the chance of going helpless, unless he is able to do it again and again.
Also, his armor upgrade could be a part of his final smash, or maybe when he is at certain % he takes less damage?
Maybe you can change the armor properties with taunts or down b.
I don't see any particular reason to don't include multiple specials in him, the hacked rooster is fairly diverse and far from common, and besides, why making X just as the other. He should be original in some way.

Also, his different abilities (the ones he copies from his fallen opponents) could be used not by changing them with taunt but with certain commands, like pressing a+b+down+down or something.

And another think, since X relies mostly on his blaster, he should be some kind of a keep away character with only a few killing moves.

BtW, do you plan on having the buster charge by time, or is it possible to charge it while pressing b and moving?

[_Data_Drain_]

Mmmm... don't like the chance of getting helpless, i guess it will led to heavy frustration. You should reduce or delete the chance of going helpless, unless he is able to do it again and again.
Also, his armor upgrade could be a part of his final smash, or maybe when he is at certain % he takes less damage?
Maybe you can change the armor properties with taunts or down b.
I don't see any particular reason to don't include multiple specials in him, the hacked rooster is fairly diverse and far from common, and besides, why making X just as the other. He should be original in some way.

Also, his different abilities (the ones he copies from his fallen opponents) could be used not by changing them with taunt but with certain commands, like pressing a+b+down+down or something.

And another think, since X relies mostly on his blaster, he should be some kind of a keep away character with only a few killing moves.

BtW, do you plan on having the buster charge by time, or is it possible to charge it while pressing b and moving?

I wasn't gonna say it bluntly, but yeah... The freefall thing is... Stupid, Zero doesn't do that, he can only use it once in the air, unless he's hit. We do not need more randomness in Brawl...

Now then, as someone said, the reason that a character shouldn't have taunt moves, or major move set changes. Think of it this way, a really good player, who never played hacked Brawl... Goes up against this character... They would fit them like a normal character. And not know what the heck the taunting does.

It's kinda unfair in a way, since the player would have to have prior knowledge of any PSA move set to combat it... How would they know that a taunt changes the move set? How would they know that the character has more then four B button moves...

Once more, I think we should wait. So this character feels like a Brawl character, and not some mish mash of coding.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

This.

I'd really like to see MK's input on X, as well. I know he's busy, but I wish he'd at least throw out his moveset ideas.
Having different movesets by taunting will make the moveset harder to balance and will make the moveset harder to "understand" for an opponent unfamiliar with it. (Having 4 Special attacks is what all in the vBrawl roster have, having 5 is acceptable, since it's not that much of a difference, but 6 or 7 would make him feel out of place against the retail roster.

Thank you for justifying.  I also noted that the alternative would have moveset changes via a Special (and even then maybe restrict it to only one move much like EY did with his Megaman over Ness).  It would make it a lot more obvious. 

But I really don't think the number of attacks a character has determines how they would fit with a roster unless it isn't executed properly and the attacks don't correlate well and the number is really obnoxious.  Does Dante feel out of place in the MvC3 roster because he has 40+ attacks comparative to some characters that have about half that?  No, because of how the attacks work in conjunction with his prime playstyle.  Again, referring back to EY's Megaman, that PSA has 4 different Side Bs, yet does not feel out of place.  It's entirely down to how the PSAer executes these moveset changing mechanics.

Zero hardly uses his blaster. X, on the other hand, only uses the blaster (Although in X3, he was able to use the Sword as the last hit of the fully charged blaster, and if I recall correctly, in X6, too), but for the rest, he's relied on blaster and techniques stolen from his enemies (Which also consists in different blasters). You may think of him as Kirby, with the difference that X needs to kill the opponent to gain his power. (Which, I doubt this'd fit, he could be made pretty neat with his armor upgrade moves/different blasters).

I'm aware of this, but I was more referring to how Zero uses his Blaster in UMvC3.  It's an absolute key part of his playstyle in that because of its flexibility.  X's blaster needs that kind of flexibility.

Now this part here sounds interesting, I'd like to hear some ideas as to how this would work... Hmm... And for the armor to show... I'd need them to be made.... Wouldn't that consume too much space?

That was my fear too, though Toon Link has a fantastic file size limit and a few articles to work with (bow, Wind Waker, Hookshot sections etc). 

[Albafika]

Thank you for justifying.  I also noted that the alternative would have moveset changes via a Special (and even then maybe restrict it to only one move much like EY did with his Megaman over Ness).  It would make it a lot more obvious.  

But I really don't think the number of attacks a character has determines how they would fit with a roster unless it isn't executed properly and the attacks don't correlate well and the number is really obnoxious.  Does Dante feel out of place in the MvC3 roster because he has 40+ attacks comparative to some characters that have about half that?  No, because of how the attacks work in conjunction with his prime playstyle.  Again, referring back to EY's Megaman, that PSA has 4 different Side Bs, yet does not feel out of place.  It's entirely down to how the PSAer executes these moveset changing mechanics.

We had a chat on MSN with MK earlier.

I understand all that, and it'd work out, say, for his X-Buster change be the one that changes its qualities, but, as MK said: X has no power-ups, and he won't really need to have move set-switching through any way, really. The moveset can be entirely done without going to that.

I'm aware of this, but I was more referring to how Zero uses his Blaster in UMvC3.  It's an absolute key part of his playstyle in that because of its flexibility.  X's blaster needs that kind of flexibility.

Concerning this, we came to the conclusion the X-Buster (Neutral B) will be using these 3 charges (Again, X has no power-ups, so these would be them):


Lv. 1: Spammy one, has the properties of Fox (No knock back at all) but can be spammed, sorta how it works in the X series.

Lv. 2: The last sprite of the green one.

Lv. 3: The last sprite of the blue one.

Now, I ask you, how could we add these 3 without having to use the Super Scope/Ray gun? We don't want to have those SFX... MK was thinking of using TL's boomerang for the Lv. 3 charge, and Wolf's shoot for the Lv. 2 charge (With enhanced GFX of course).

Also, for the X-Buster we were hoping we could have it.. Charge while holding B.. And still be able to walk/run/jump, and if possible, use A attacks, would that be possible somehow?

[KingJigglypuff]

Right now I'm trying to code the walking and jumping aspects of the move.