Super Smash Bros. All Stars (Teaser: Lucas, Popo & Nana)

[Nezha B. Rose]

I know you're playing devil's advocate since you want the sword, but...



His hate does not equal the sword! His hate = Ganondorf! The curse of Demise is the embodiment of the aforementioned! If the Sword = Hate and Hate = Ganondorf, that not only makes the Master Sword a curse (which is preposterous), but it also means Ganondorf kills himself at the end of every game!

ADDITIONALLY, Demise NEVER rises again (so far as we know), making your point moot!

I-i-impossible!!!

[Amarythe]

Lmfao Scout. I assume I've won.

The swap literally takes a few seconds to do for the sword. I know you're not going to do it, and I know you say that you have a lot on your plate. But is 8 seconds (excluding the time to find the models, which honestly shouldn't take long) to change the sword really going to take that much time out of your hacking?

It may seem irrational, but you have to consider a few things.
1. I have a full time job. Awake at 5 in the morning and home at 5:30. Ouch.
2. I'm also writing a book. A research work. I've already hit 100 pages and I've barely scratched the surface. The level of time and sheer discipline, not to mention study, involved in the process is unfathomably demanding.
3. Full hackset major changes blah blah blah finished product may never happen blah blah

Believe me, I totally understand why this seems absurd to you, but the position I'm in simply doesn't make it ideal. I really hate to be "that guy", I really hate to disappoint people, but I'm just swamped as hell. With this project, with my book, with work, with everything. In order to keep progress steady, I need to be as bare-bones as possible with this.

Could multiple swords be planned down the line? Maybe. If enough people bug me about it. But for now, at the very least, I need to move on. Mario is long overdue, and the project has been rather stagnant for quite some time.

This whole matter involving the sword isn't even relevant right now: He doesn't have any sword attacks yet! xD When Ganondorf hits that stage, THEN I'll take this into account. For now, this is more than good enough, and the canonical legitimacy of the Dark Master Sword trumps all the other weapons I could have used.

I think they're the Dark Master Sword, Sage Sword, the one he had in SSBM for his victory, and the WW sword (although you could argue that the WW sword wouldn't fit the model and the style at all, which I would agree with. Clashes too hard).

Of those four swords you listed (and you listed all the possibilities, trust me)...
1. The SSBM Sword isn't canon at all (and this hack set is strictly canon. SSB is not canon, and will not be recognized). This point is non-negotiable, I'm afraid.
2. Like you said, a single Wind Waker sword would cause a major clash in the style. I 100% agree and for that reason can't include it (...until we get slot specific sword hacks up and kicking).

That leaves us with the Sage sword and the Dark Master Sword.

Aaaaand for the time being? The DMS will more than suffice. And it makes more sense canonically, characteristically. And... of the two options left? It's his weapon.

That's all I can say for now. I feel that the changes I've made (he's 90% de-cloned, for goodness' sake) are more than enough of a trade off, at the very least, for now.

[Kienamaru]

Well Ganondorf never had the Dark Master Sword. And he did actually have the Sage sword. Unless you're talking about a Demise moveset which this things seems to not be. I have to say that being a fan of Zelda and knowing most of it's history (no thanks to Hyrule Historia which I don't have.) The Sage Sword is the only legitimate option, as Demise wasn't even fought on the same realm as Hyrule. The DMS would have been lost forever.

[Amarythe]

Well Ganondorf never had the Dark Master Sword.

I've already established that the hate-curse of Ganondorf, as a residual emotional projection of Demise' consciousness, can be in some sense equated with Demise as a being. Ganondorf and Demise may be separate people, but I must maintain that they are one as a conscious, willful substance.

I also provided Demise' own testimony on the subject, in which he claims "I will rise again". For the time being it must be assumed that Demise is revived through the incarnation of Ganondorf.

And he did actually have the Sage sword. Unless you're talking about a Demise moveset which this things seems to not be.

The All Stars series is an attempted mixture of all representations of all of a character's incarnations. I'm talking about a Ganondorf moveset and a Demise moveset. It well have tinges of Demise' attacks (specifically, his Skyward Strike and his hover-dash-slash attack thingy).

The Sage Sword is the only legitimate option, as Demise wasn't even fought on the same realm as Hyrule. The DMS would have been lost forever.

If one argues that the Dark Master Sword was lost forever due to it being left in the Sacred Realm (which has been accessed, mind you), one could easily argue that the Sage Sword was lost through the passage of time or perhaps theoretically returned to the sages, therefore negating its connection to Ganondorf.

---

One of the main reasons the Dark Master Sword was chosen over the Sage Sword is aesthetics. Demise is (or rather, will be) included as a costume (5th slot, not 1st like in the first release), and the Sage Sword would clash horribly with it. Along with the Phantom Ganon also planned.

It's largely an aesthetic choice, but I feel it was the right thing to do canonically as well.

[Nao-chan]

I like the idea of him using that sword, the Dark Master Sword that is. It looks great and fits Ganons personality so well.

On another note. You could just have the model files of the other swords in the pack so anyone can swap them out if they feel the need to. I dunno, just a suggestion.

[andalsoandy]

I just tried SSB:AS Ganon.

You really need to smooth those animations, particularly his walking animation. He also jumps choppily.

I really like how he plays otherwise. Can't wait for his specials!

[Amarythe]

You really need to smooth those animations, particularly his walking animation. He also jumps choppily.

Yeah, that walk certainly needs work.

There's little I can do about the jumps though. You see, when he's falling, if you tilt forward, he leans forward. If you tilt back, he leans back.
The only way to make it work? Get rid of the "leaning" effect. I wasn't willing to do that at first but it looks like I don't have a choice.

[andalsoandy]

Yeah, that walk certainly needs work.

There's little I can do about the jumps though. You see, when he's falling, if you tilt forward, he leans forward. If you tilt back, he leans back.
The only way to make it work? Get rid of the "leaning" effect. I wasn't willing to do that at first but it looks like I don't have a choice.

Can you give him Mewtwo's hover mechanics instead (like hovering in any direction?)

[Amarythe]

Some problems with that.

1. I don't know how to do that, haha. (I could learn, but... read on)
2. Ganondorf never necessarily displayed that ability (although I admit that's a poor excuse).
3. From a canon standpoint, Ganondorf can hover indefinitely. Mewtwo's hover is limited (and it's not even canon, but that's a whole 'nother story).
4. I don't feel it's necessary to apply a button input (Jump + vDown) on an ability Ganondorf has inherently.
5. Giving him the ability to move up and down would give him even MORE aerial maneuverability, which is what makes this hack relatively OP as it is.

...On that note, I want to talk about this hack being OP. Because, even despite the nerfs, it's easily one of, if not the best Character when compared to P:M's roster. I need some ideas on how to make him worse.

I've already made his Aerial attacks significantly slower. I think it could use even more lag, though.
I've already applied major power nerfs to his Aerial attacks as well. I think giving him even less power is non-negotiable at this point (it would clash with Ganon's character).
The hover mechanic, due to a slight bug, makes attacks with an upward trajectory slightly more likely to kill Ganon, so I'm afraid a defense nerf is also relatively non-negotiable (I may have to consider it though).
I'm considering giving his Air Speed (how fast he moves left-right while hovering) a small nerf, but he's already not that fast in the air.
I'm also planning on making his new Up-B (currently not included) far worse in terms of recovery, so... that should make him a great deal worse.

In light of that info, do you cats have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is making his air game slower. >_>

[Large Leader]

Add starting lag to his moves instead of just making them slower overall.

[Akeno/Archer]

Some problems with that.

1. I don't know how to do that, haha. (I could learn, but... read on)
2. Ganondorf never necessarily displayed that ability (although I admit that's a poor excuse).
3. From a canon standpoint, Ganondorf can hover indefinitely. Mewtwo's hover is limited (and it's not even canon, but that's a whole 'nother story).
4. I don't feel it's necessary to apply a button input (Jump + vDown) on an ability Ganondorf has inherently.
5. Giving him the ability to move up and down would give him even MORE aerial maneuverability, which is what makes this hack relatively OP as it is.

...On that note, I want to talk about this hack being OP. Because, even despite the nerfs, it's easily one of, if not the best Character when compared to P:M's roster. I need some ideas on how to make him worse.

I've already made his Aerial attacks significantly slower. I think it could use even more lag, though.
I've already applied major power nerfs to his Aerial attacks as well. I think giving him even less power is non-negotiable at this point (it would clash with Ganon's character).
The hover mechanic, due to a slight bug, makes attacks with an upward trajectory slightly more likely to kill Ganon, so I'm afraid a defense nerf is also relatively non-negotiable (I may have to consider it though).
I'm considering giving his Air Speed (how fast he moves left-right while hovering) a small nerf, but he's already not that fast in the air.
I'm also planning on making his new Up-B (currently not included) far worse in terms of recovery, so... that should make him a great deal worse.

In light of that info, do you cats have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is making his air game slower. >_>

Oh... Why not nerfing a little his air gameplay, but destroy his ground gameplay. Which would make him powerful in the air, but useless as [censored] on the ground...

[KingJigglypuff]

Wynaut make his floating mechanic his Up Special?

[Amarythe]

Add starting lag to his moves instead of just making them slower overall.

Oh, of course. Whenever I make a move slower, I almost always do it with starting lag. Ending lag is about half as bad as starting lag (because provided the move connects it has little significance).

Plus, I'm well aware that making the attack frames slower actually makes the attack much better, haha. Hitboxes that last longer are far more accurate.

Oh... Why not nerfing a little his air gameplay, but destroy his ground gameplay. Which would make him powerful in the air, but useless as [censored] on the ground...

OK, I see how that could work. BUT, just note on thing:

If I destroy his ground game, people will rely primarily on his air game. The hover mechanic already puts focus on his air game. Making air game useful alone would make the hack very, very bland (because who would use him on the ground?).

However, I'll apply a nerf here and there to his ground game. For example, I know for a fact that his Down Smash has too much knockback right now.

Wynaut make his floating mechanic his Up Special?

...I think that was actually the original plan of action. BronzeGreekGod suggested reserving the Up-B for something akin to a teleport maneuver though (like how Ganon teleports in A Link to the Past).

At first I objected, because I considered the hover far more important than teleportation, but that was before I figured out how I could make a character hover as a default jump.

Once I figured that out, I reasoned that I could open the Up-B to something entirely new. And, as it happens, cramming as much content reminiscent to past-game abilities is a huge part of the project's mission statement.

If I absolutely can't balance this through other more conventional means, this is a suggestion I'll probably have to entertain.

Although I understand I'm being pretty stubborn with this, haha.

[Lito]

This is going to sound completely weird but instead of balancing by nerfing... why don't you balance by buffing?

[Amarythe]

I put some serious contemplation into that. I might just go in that direction. Mainly because this flying mechanic is planned for a couple other characters. Two or three others, maybe.