The Star Forge: Side Project - SSBU Sheik

[ShinyMammoth]

I have a question about Chrom's final.

Why is the finalstart subaction still set to go to finalstarthit and finalmove? Unless I have bad eyesight, that seems to be the case.

Mammoth said that Ike would 'turn to face the camera' (which, admittedly, I have no idea what that means, does he turn and wave and say 'vote for Ike' or does he turn and continue with the final?)

If that's the case, why not turn Ike 90 degrees to look back straight and face the opponent and continue with the final as intended (haven't been able to test the rerouting thing yet, myself)

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to help you with. When I said to skip those actions, it was to keep ike and his opponent on the ground. If you haven't looked at chrom in game he still does the finalstarthit and move.

And when I said he turns to face the camera I meant this.

Ike swings, makes contact, and then instead of jumping clips to be facing the camera. He then continues doing his final smash while facing the camera, and will continue to face it until you side-c or something, that puts him back to normal.

[Revan]

It should work just fine in vBrawl. I've taken Marth and Ike's PSA's straight from their folders in PM and put them in vBrawl and started playing with no problems. At least none that I could really see. I'll send it to you. Tell me if it needs work or not. Or if you can even play with it at all. There's the link.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/54v30lw78yoly2j/0pw60XormB

Do you think I could get the latest version of Chrom's FitMotion? I'd like to see how you updated him.

Also I just started to work on his Wait1. It should be done by the time you see this post.

EDIT: Okay, I just finished it.
Here's my old one, on top, compared to the new one, on bottom.

I changed the arm placement on both arms. That's pretty much it, so it should flow better with your animations. I used your frame 1 to start with. It loops right back to it smoothly. Hope you like what I did. I'll send it over via PM.

Alrighty I'll give it a look right a way.

And The waits look awesome thanks again, I'll check those out right now as well.
I'll also send you a link to Chrom's latest stuff too via pm.

Lol HD. I love how you pop into people's threads with collab material.

I shoulda subbed this some time ago, this stuff's good.

Thanks for the support!
That's Heavy's style, The Collab Assassin. lol

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to help you with. When I said to skip those actions, it was to keep ike and his opponent on the ground. If you haven't looked at chrom in game he still does the finalstarthit and move.

And when I said he turns to face the camera I meant this.

Ike swings, makes contact, and then instead of jumping clips to be facing the camera. He then continues doing his final smash while facing the camera, and will continue to face it until you side-c or something, that puts him back to normal.

Yeah It was definitely weird stuff. That's why we just decided to make Chrom go to a new stage and work around how Ike's FS is already setup.

[Nao-chan]

Thanks for the support!
That's Heavy's style, The Collab Assassin. lol

You hit the nail on the head man. Also I really like the sound of that. I might ask to get my title changed to Collab Assassin. It sounds awesome.

Oh yeah thanks for the pm, and I'm glad you like the new wait1, it should flow much better now.

[Revan]

You hit the nail on the head man. Also I really like the sound of that. I might ask to get my title changed to Collab Assassin. It sounds awesome.

Lol that would be awesome.
But I checked out your wait out and it looks great. I was gonna start editing the end frames of Chrom's attacks today but I think i'm gonna wait for the model for that. Purely because of the slight chance anything needs to be changed for the model switch. Either way updating my animations should only take about a day to do.
Great job though.
Im gonna check your Marth right now.

[Nao-chan]

Lol that would be awesome.
But I checked out your wait out and it looks great. I was gonna start editing the end frames of Chrom's attacks today but I think i'm gonna wait for the model for that. Purely because of the slight chance anything needs to be changed for the model switch. Either way updating my animations should only take about a day to do.
Great job though.
Im gonna check your Marth right now.

Yeah that would be best. And thanks, I'm happy to help. I guess that's what I'll be known for.

I really hope he still works for vBrawl.

Edit: I forgot. I also had some good ideas for some animations for Lucina last night. Like changing her Final Smash to her Critical Aether. In game version, where she lunges, attacks, jumps back, and does a final strike straight through anyone in front of her. I have some good camera angles in mind as well. If Brawl will let me that is.

[Large Leader]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to help you with. When I said to skip those actions, it was to keep ike and his opponent on the ground. If you haven't looked at chrom in game he still does the finalstarthit and move.

And when I said he turns to face the camera I meant this.

Ike swings, makes contact, and then instead of jumping clips to be facing the camera. He then continues doing his final smash while facing the camera, and will continue to face it until you side-c or something, that puts him back to normal.

Yeah, I saw that you were still using action references to his finalstarthit and finalmove, which is why I asked. It's a shame that you had to work around that complication.

Noticed that you made the finalmove 1 frame and the speed 10000 clever

[Nao-chan]

Now I'm the Official Collab Assassin, as of now. Thanks to Oizen!

[Revan]

Yeah that would be best. And thanks, I'm happy to help. I guess that's what I'll be known for.

I really hope he still works for vBrawl.

Edit: I forgot. I also had some good ideas for some animations for Lucina last night. Like changing her Final Smash to her Critical Aether. In game version, where she lunges, attacks, jumps back, and does a final strike straight through anyone in front of her. I have some good camera angles in mind as well. If Brawl will let me that is.

That would be pretty damn cool, but i'm not sure what MasterHand has planned yet. I feel like the cameras will do what you want. From what I've seen they are pretty forgiving.

I also checked out your Marth. It looks pretty cool, though i'm not familiar with PM Marth so I don't know all that you changed, other than the FS. From what I could tell you gave him a custom Wait, and Run? Either way from what I could tell the transitions from Wait1 to the others needs to be fixed along with the animations that end with his wait, which i'm sure you know, and the dash needs to be updated to fit with the Run.
When It comes to the FS, good job with the cameras. Definitely nice and dynamic.

And thats badass tha your the collab assassin now. From this day fourth, you will be known for your sneaky collabs. Lol

Yeah, I saw that you were still using action references to his finalstarthit and finalmove, which is why I asked. It's a shame that you had to work around that complication.

Noticed that you made the finalmove 1 frame and the speed 10000 clever

Yeah we had a hard time finding a compromise to make the attack still work how we wanted, not knowing how to do custom special throws is pretty lame.

On a side note, do you know if that Micaiah is still being worked on?
I could see that transforming Sothe and Micaiah being a pretty cool project to collab on.

[Nao-chan]

That would be pretty damn cool, but i'm not sure what MasterHand has planned yet. I feel like the cameras will do what you want. From what I've seen they are pretty forgiving.

I also checked out your Marth. It looks pretty cool, though i'm not familiar with PM Marth so I don't know all that you changed, other than the FS. From what I could tell you gave him a custom Wait, and Run? Either way from what I could tell the transitions from Wait1 to the others needs to be fixed along with the animations that end with his wait, which i'm sure you know, and the dash needs to be updated to fit with the Run.
When It comes to the FS, good job with the cameras. Definitely nice and dynamic.

And thats badass tha your the collab assassin now. From this day fourth, you will be known for your sneaky collabs. Lol.

Yeah I know I didn't do any of the transitions. But I may get around to doing it at some point, I dunno. Basically PM Marth is the same as vBrawl Marth animation wise. His PSA is slightly different, but not by much. Also the Run animation I did for him was based off of the anim that Marth and Lucina do in Awakening.

I changed the visual animations(the anims that show the character talking) so that she actually looks like she's saying what she's saying. I'm using Lucina and her voice pack by the way. I edited her taunt and win visuals.

Also, the only reason I'm skeptical on the cameras is that I don't know how many you can have for one section of the move. There's 3 total. The Start, Dash, and End animations. The Dash End doesn't really need one it'd just go to normal cam anyway. but the biggest concern is the Final End. I'm making it a 2 parter so I don't know if it would allow 2 different cameras in the same section. It didn't for the idea i had for Ike on his Final End.

[Large Leader]

Yeah we had a hard time finding a compromise to make the attack still work how we wanted, not knowing how to do custom special throws is pretty lame.

On a side note, do you know if that Micaiah is still being worked on?
I could see that transforming Sothe and Micaiah being a pretty cool project to collab on.

Pikazz wrote a tut on custom throws but that requires knowledge of modules and whatnot. And flailing around in module files was far from fun.

I have no idea if Miciah is still being worked on. I'm still updating my Sothe, though. You could PM Iwwi and ask him about her. If not, I could try rigging Miciah myself.

[PallaPal]

Hi there! So I got to testing Chrom out and whatnot... and he's a ton of fun to use. I definitely think you have the right feel for how Chrom should play. He's not too light, yet not too heavy. Weight-wise, he reminds me a bit of Wolf, who I'd classify in the same manner of him being heavy-ish, but not quite. He actually has some pretty unique ways of getting KOs early with the right positioning.

Some things I noticed that were a nice touch on Chrom were some of his more "minor" animations. I really like how he has unique rolling dodges, ledge attacks, and grab attack. I also like the handling on some of his Aerials. The Down Air seems to reflect the general flashiness of Chrom's style, along with the Neutral and Back Air. The Back Air's first kick hitbox may need a size increase though. Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble connecting it with the opponent sometimes. I find it interesting how his Up Air works. There doesn't seem to be any other character other than Samus that has a multi-hit Up Air, so the fact that Chrom does too seems pretty cool. Another thing I noticed was that Chrom backs up very slightly when doing his Down Smash.

======================================
Generally, I think he really only needs some refinements before he's ready to be released.
Anyway, more specifically about those refinements. Naturally differentiating him further from Ike is going to be a part of this. Mainly referring to the Up Smash, Down Tilt, Forward Air, and... I guess the Up throw. I'm not a super PSA authority figure or anything, so I can't say my suggestions are near the best, but I can try for those, haha.

I can see the changes done in the Up Smash where he swings it with two hands and that it's faster. If you want to keep it in a similar vein, maybe you could have him quickly turn around and have him swing opposite to Ike's Up Smash. Then have Chrom Reverse Direction (using Project Smash Attacks of course). It would be a bit unique and maybe could even setup for his back air, because he'll be facing away from his opponent afterward. I'm not so sure what to suggest for the Down Tilt though. His Forward Air is practically a mix of Marth and Ike's as is, do maybe all it needs is a motion edit. Otherwise I'm not sure what to suggest for that either. As for the Up throw, maybe just make it a one-handed toss?

======================================
For more minor edit suggestions, his Neutral Air kind of leaves him hanging in the air a tad long after the animation ends. I think it needs a minor reduction in end lag (Just in the air. Ground end lag is fine.) The other things are his recovery, Dash attack, and Side B.

I suggest having the recovery move a bit further forward or have it more controllable in the air. I don't know how the Project M team managed to do it, but something like that in terms of Air control. I see what you were going for with that attack by the way. It was from the Arena Ferox cutscene. I initially wanted to have Lucina do that somehow, but I just had it translate somewhat into her Neutral Air instead.

The dash attack I think just needs to go a bit further. I think this was suggested to you before, sorry about that, but yeah maybe just a bit more. Chrom runs pretty fast, but then jumps like 3 inches forward.
Then his Side B... I kind of just think it should give him a slight Captain Falcon-ish up boost in the air if it connects so he doesn't KO himself, haha.

=========================================

I hope my feedback will be useful. I really enjoyed the Chrom Beta as is, so I can't wait for the finished product! I also like his Final Smash a lot by the way. Just had to throw that last part in there, heh.

[Revan]

Hi there! So I got to testing Chrom out and whatnot... and he's a ton of fun to use. I definitely think you have the right feel for how Chrom should play. He's not too light, yet not too heavy. Weight-wise, he reminds me a bit of Wolf, who I'd classify in the same manner of him being heavy-ish, but not quite. He actually has some pretty unique ways of getting KOs early with the right positioning.

Some things I noticed that were a nice touch on Chrom were some of his more "minor" animations. I really like how he has unique rolling dodges, ledge attacks, and grab attack. I also like the handling on some of his Aerials. The Down Air seems to reflect the general flashiness of Chrom's style, along with the Neutral and Back Air. The Back Air's first kick hitbox may need a size increase though. Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble connecting it with the opponent sometimes. I find it interesting how his Up Air works. There doesn't seem to be any other character other than Samus that has a multi-hit Up Air, so the fact that Chrom does too seems pretty cool. Another thing I noticed was that Chrom backs up very slightly when doing his Down Smash.

======================================
Generally, I think he really only needs some refinements before he's ready to be released.
Anyway, more specifically about those refinements. Naturally differentiating him further from Ike is going to be a part of this. Mainly referring to the Up Smash, Down Tilt, Forward Air, and... I guess the Up throw. I'm not a super PSA authority figure or anything, so I can't say my suggestions are near the best, but I can try for those, haha.

I can see the changes done in the Up Smash where he swings it with two hands and that it's faster. If you want to keep it in a similar vein, maybe you could have him quickly turn around and have him swing opposite to Ike's Up Smash. Then have Chrom Reverse Direction (using Project Smash Attacks of course). It would be a bit unique and maybe could even setup for his back air, because he'll be facing away from his opponent afterward. I'm not so sure what to suggest for the Down Tilt though. His Forward Air is practically a mix of Marth and Ike's as is, do maybe all it needs is a motion edit. Otherwise I'm not sure what to suggest for that either. As for the Up throw, maybe just make it a one-handed toss?

======================================
For more minor edit suggestions, his Neutral Air kind of leaves him hanging in the air a tad long after the animation ends. I think it needs a minor reduction in end lag (Just in the air. Ground end lag is fine.) The other things are his recovery, Dash attack, and Side B.

I suggest having the recovery move a bit further forward or have it more controllable in the air. I don't know how the Project M team managed to do it, but something like that in terms of Air control. I see what you were going for with that attack by the way. It was from the Arena Ferox cutscene. I initially wanted to have Lucina do that somehow, but I just had it translate somewhat into her Neutral Air instead.

The dash attack I think just needs to go a bit further. I think this was suggested to you before, sorry about that, but yeah maybe just a bit more. Chrom runs pretty fast, but then jumps like 3 inches forward.
Then his Side B... I kind of just think it should give him a slight Captain Falcon-ish up boost in the air if it connects so he doesn't KO himself, haha.

=========================================

I hope my feedback will be useful. I really enjoyed the Chrom Beta as is, so I can't wait for the finished product! I also like his Final Smash a lot by the way. Just had to throw that last part in there, heh.

Thanks for the great review man. You definitely noticed a bunch of the little things I added to try to make him more like Chrom. Interesting comparison to Wolf, I can totally see their similarities in playstyle. You also solidified a lot of the decisions made to his moveset that we have had mixed reviews about.
I guess I have to change his up throw don't I? lol I have really lacked the motivation to change it but since its been pointed out he will be getting a new one. I'll also see what I can do about tweaking the down tilt and forward air too.
You have an interesting take on the up smash. I'll definitely consider your idea before his release, because I see the similarities with his and Ike's. It really depends on how hard it is to animate because I have animated that attack a few times now, and its been a real thorn in my side lol. And I would have to change the animation to prevent any clipping or weird transitioning.

I'll look into reducing the lag of his N air as well, I was being too modest with with that attack. As for his recovery, have you tried to use his Side B in the air over and over to sail back to the stage before using the Up B? Generally we got great responses on his recovery. But you hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what I was trying to do with his Up B haha
If you really wanted to give Lucina an Up B like that, I'm sure Mammoth could figure out how to do it. (I feel like he already knows) But its funny that you said that, because Mammoth and I were talking about how it would be cool if the Lucina update kind of mirrored Chrom in ways, the Up B being one.
Your not the first person to note that his Dash Attack should go further, I will implement it.
With the Side B it will definitely get some sort of revision, we aren't sure what yet. The problem with moving him up is its hard to make it so the hitbox connects every time no matter what (which it already doesn't do) and he is only moving forward. Idk, we'll figure something out.

Your feedback was totally useful. I feel the more feedback about a psa, even if anything was already said, will help the overall psa in the end.
Really hope you like what we do with Chrom when he is finished, and if you want to collab, or just want some help with Lucina just let us know. Being the Daughter of our psa she is important to who he is (In a weird way idk lol)

[Nao-chan]

I'm trying to make a Final Smash for Lucina right now. Making her Critical Aether her FS. The animating is taking a long time. I'm not good with attacks yet, but so far I have the initial first frames done for every part of the attack.

[Revan]

I'm trying to make a Final Smash for Lucina right now. Making her Critical Aether her FS. The animating is taking a long time. I'm not good with attacks yet, but so far I have the initial first frames done for every part of the attack.

Sounds awesome. If you want any help or pointers let me know. Have you confirmed with MasterHand that he wants to do this or are you just throwing it out there? lol
Either way its a great idea for her FS.

Also I have to say it, damn Brawl Ex is looking crazy. It has been my dream since I've started hacking to have that many characters on one screen. The possibilities are endless.
Mammoth and I are considering starting a team to fill the roster but idk. It would take dedication. We're currently using Triple Rasta to kind of emulate what we want as a whole.
My idea is to take all the best hacks on the vault (At least, the Characters we see would be in a crossover game like brawl.) and reviving them in so many words to met the current standards of today's PSAs. The people on the list below with a "*" next to their name are people who need Reviving.
Here's the roster so far:

Characters: 38 PSAs in counting.

-Animal Crossing-
Villager (PSA being made)

-Crash Bandicoot-
Crash

-Donkey Kong-
K. Rool (PSA being made)

-Fire Emblem-
Black Knight (PSA being made)
Chrom (PSA being made)
Hector (PSA being made)
Lucina (PSA being Revivied)
Nephenee (PSA being made)
Roy (PSA being made)

-Halo-
Master Cheif (PSA wishlist)

-Klanoa-
*Klanoa

-Legend of Zelda-
*Echo Blade Sheik (pretty sure these aren't cannon)(R Trigger moveset)
*Echo Blade Zelda (Should they make the roster?)   (R Trigger moveset)


-Megaman-
Megaman (PSA being revamped)
Bass (PSA being made)

-Metroid-
Samus No Transform (R Trigger moveset)?
ZSS No Transform       (R Trigger moveset)?
*Ridley

-Pac-Man-
Pacman (PSA being made)?

-Pokemon-
Blastoise Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Charizard Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Venusaur Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Mewtwo
*Scizor
*Typhlosion

-Punch Out-
Little Mac (PSA wishlist)

-Sonic the Hedgehog-
Amy Rose                      (PSA being made)
Chaos Zero                   (PSA being made)
Knuckles the Echidna
Metal Sonic                   (PSA being revived)
Shadow the Hedgehog (PSA being updated)
Silver the Hedgehog
*Tails Prower

-Spyro-
Spyro the Dragon (PSA will be made)

-Super Mario-
Mario SMBZ (R Trigger moveset)
Luigi SMBZ  (R Trigger moveset)
*Geno
Rosalina (PSA wishlist)
Waluigi   (PSA being made)

-Wii Fit-
Wii Fit Trainer (PSA wishlist)

I didn't really wanna post a topic about this yet, because we don't have the man power to set something like this in motion. I know we're kind of leaving Pokemon in the dust, but we just didn't have enough people on the team to really finish that project. We still do have plans to revisit pokemon, but the odds of us finishing a new roster from pretty much scratch is slim. I feel this is a more realistic task to finish, seeing as most of the PSAs that will be on this roster will be revamps. I also wanna have complete CSS information with this pack, SFX, and custom All-Star and Event matches. Plus a plethora of new stages. (Of course, we would have to get consent from all of the original creators of these hacks.) Anyone have any other good character ideas?
PW gave us the Tools guys, I wanna get to work haha.  

[Nao-chan]

Sounds awesome. If you want any help or pointers let me know. Have you confirmed with MasterHand that he wants to do this or are you just throwing it out there? lol
Either way its a great idea for her FS.

Also I have to say it, damn Brawl Ex is looking crazy. It has been my dream since I've started hacking to have that many characters on one screen. The possibilities are endless.
Mammoth and I are considering starting a team to fill the roster but idk. It would take dedication. We're currently using Triple Rasta to kind of emulate what we want as a whole.
My idea is to take all the best hacks on the vault (At least, the Characters we see would be in a crossover game like brawl.) and reviving them in so many words to met the current standards of today's PSAs. The people on the list below with a "*" next to their name are people who need Reviving.
Here's the roster so far:

Characters: 38 PSAs in counting.

-Animal Crossing-
Villager (PSA being made)

-Crash Bandicoot-
Crash

-Donkey Kong-
K. Rool (PSA being made)

-Fire Emblem-
Black Knight (PSA being made)
Chrom (PSA being made)
Hector (PSA being made)
Lucina (PSA being Revivied)
Nephenee (PSA being made)
Roy (PSA being made)

-Halo-
Master Cheif (PSA wishlist)

-Klanoa-
*Klanoa

-Legend of Zelda-
*Echo Blade Sheik (pretty sure these aren't cannon)(R Trigger moveset)
*Echo Blade Zelda (Should they make the roster?)   (R Trigger moveset)


-Megaman-
Megaman (PSA being revamped)
Bass (PSA being made)

-Metroid-
Samus No Transform (R Trigger moveset)?
ZSS No Transform       (R Trigger moveset)?
*Ridley

-Pac-Man-
Pacman (PSA being made)?

-Pokemon-
Blastoise Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Charizard Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Venusaur Evolved (R Trigger moveset)
Mewtwo
*Scizor
*Typhlosion

-Punch Out-
Little Mac (PSA wishlist)

-Sonic the Hedgehog-
Amy Rose                      (PSA being made)
Chaos Zero                   (PSA being made)
Knuckles the Echidna
Metal Sonic                   (PSA being revived)
Shadow the Hedgehog (PSA being updated)
Silver the Hedgehog
*Tails Prower

-Spyro-
Spyro the Dragon (PSA will be made)

-Super Mario-
Mario SMBZ (R Trigger moveset)
Luigi SMBZ  (R Trigger moveset)
*Geno
Rosalina (PSA wishlist)
Waluigi   (PSA being made)

-Wii Fit-
Wii Fit Trainer (PSA wishlist)

I didn't really wanna post a topic about this yet, because we don't have the man power to set something like this in motion. I know we're kind of leaving Pokemon in the dust, but we just didn't have enough people on the team to really finish that project. We still do have plans to revisit pokemon, but the odds of us finishing a new roster from pretty much scratch is slim. I feel this is a more realistic task to finish, seeing as most of the PSAs that will be on this roster will be revamps. I also wanna have complete CSS information with this pack, SFX, and custom All-Star and Event matches. Plus a plethora of new stages. (Of course, we would have to get consent from all of the original creators of these hacks.) Anyone have any other good character ideas?
PW gave us the Tools guys, I wanna get to work haha.  

No I haven't talked to him about it yet. I was really just throwing it out there for now. I need help animating it period. Like I said before I'm not really good with attacks at all. I'm very new to animating that big a project anyway. I usually just do the small stuff.


Also, Holy crap that's one hell of a project there. *feels ashamed to call mine big* Damn that's gonna take quite a lot of work and man power to accomplish. Good luck. Don't really know if I'd be much help with any of that stuff, but if you need an extra hand you know the Collab Assassin will jump right on it. Depending on what it is though. haha.