Haloedhero's Projects: Finally on the Project: M Team

[Royal_Blade]

What? Joined PM? ._.

This?

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Congratz for getting onto the team bro!  I knew you could do it ^^  Everyone is very happy to have you.  Also means I won't have as much of a P:M animation load to carry XD  Anyways, best of luck in all your modding endeavours!

[Royal_Blade]

Wow! That's great news! Congratz!

[Albafika]

I can't really tell wether that's exciting or not. I don't like the idea of moving Brawl back to its 6 years in the past prequel.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

I can't really tell wether that's exciting or not. I don't like the idea of moving Brawl back to its 6 years in the past prequel.

*Sigh* I hate these kind of ignorant comments   I could rage, but instead let me just direct you to this old topic I made to enlighten you a bit more on what P:M really is:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=30298.0

P:M >>>>> vBrawl in literally every possible way even in it's current closed alpha state.  It demonstrates much better balance, more moveset creativity, faster paced gameplay, more technical gameplay and a load of other things too.  And this is just the closed alpha.  When it's finished it will be incredible....

And this is coming from someone that prefers Brawl over Melee.  Melee's gameplay engine was just generally better than Brawl's, but Brawl offered a great level of accessibility and content.  The latter for Brawl doesn't change in P:M, but it's basically getting an improved version of Melee's engine.   

So yeah, it's exciting because we're getting another really good animator working for a great codeset that he himself has been following for a good while now.

[Albafika]

*Sigh* I hate these kind of ignorant comments  I could rage, but instead let me just direct you to this old topic I made to enlighten you a bit more on what P:M really is:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=30298.0

P:M >>>>> vBrawl in literally every possible way even in it's current closed alpha state.  It demonstrates much better balance, more moveset creativity, faster paced gameplay, more technical gameplay and a load of other things too.  And this is just the closed alpha.  When it's finished it will be incredible....

And this is coming from someone that prefers Brawl over Melee.  Melee's gameplay engine was just generally better than Brawl's, but Brawl offered a great level of accessibility and content.  The latter for Brawl doesn't change in P:M, but it's basically getting an improved version of Melee's engine.    

So yeah, it's exciting because we're getting another really good animator working for a great codeset that he himself has been following for a good while now.

You raging over this? Wow. Anyways, ignorant? Nah, not really. More like, uninterested. I don't really feel bringing back stuff like wavedashing is really for the good, for instance.

Also, you seem to have had the same opinion I did before joining PM yourself:

Project M: Speaking of such, this is a sort of mixed bag for me.  On one hand, it's fantastic that they're bringing back loads of the mechanics from Melee, as well as giving some really nice new tweaks to the newcomers.  On the other hand, I really dislike how they are recloning characters to back how they were in Melee.  One of the things that Brawl undeniably succeeded in over Melee was decloning characters to make them feel different.  However, for Project M, it's pretty early days.  It hasn't quite had enough development yet to give it a full critique.

I'm entitled to my opinion as you're entitled to your actual opinion until something comes out and really proves to not to be a Melee Clone (And if I recall correctly, I remember this line or soemthing along it on PM's OP:

"Can we call Brawl+ Melee 2.0? No. Can we call this Melee 2.0? Yes, you can."

[ItalianStallion]

No more drama arguing [censored].



That [censored] needs to stay in high school, or at Bank of America.

Thanks.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

You raging over this? Wow. Anyways, ignorant? Nah, not really. More like, uninterested. I don't really feel bringing back stuff like wavedashing is really for the good, for instance.

Also, you seem to have had the same opinion I did before joining PM yourself:

Firstly, that was over half a year ago.  The amount that P:M has come along since then is actually insane.  Being a part of the dev team means that I know most of what goes on as regards to it.  Not only that, but I'm consistently watching streams and gameplay vids of P:M too and as a result I'm much more aware of the intricacies of the game.  That comment back then was a rather ignorant call on my part, because I'd mainly seen stuff on the Fox, Falco and other Melee top tiers etc i.e. the only characters that are being replicated very similarly to how they were in Melee (and even then, they aren't totally identical).  The fact of the matter is, even the old characters are either getting new tricks or are just getting better in general.

I'm entitled to my opinion as you're entitled to your actual opinion until something comes out and really proves to not to be a Melee Clone (And if I recall correctly, I remember this line or soemthing along it on PM's OP:

"Can we call Brawl+ Melee 2.0? No. Can we call this Melee 2.0? Yes, you can."

Of course you're entitled to your own opinion.  I'm not expecting you to like it, just to actually understand it properly and stating stuff like "moving Brawl back to its 6 years in the past prequel" doesn't really give that impression.

Also, Melee clone =/= Melee 2.0.  The statement Melee clone implies that they are trying to recreate the game to be exactly like Melee, which is not the case as aforementioned.  Melee 2.0 implies that it's a sequel.  As in it shows progression whilst retaining what was good about the game in the first place.  Think SMG and SMG2.  The engine is pretty much identical but with improvements here and there and new additions.  P:M is a similar case.  Rather than straying far away from what Melee lay gameplay wise (like Brawl did), it sticks to what Melee did right and improves upon it.  For example, Ledge Occupancy is now better in P:M than in Melee (in Melee it was impractically long, but in Brawl it was too short.  In P:M there's a healthy inbetween) and tethers now don't suck ass (see here: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3199 ) as well as other things here and there.

And don't even get me started on the characters.  I could go on a looooooong tangent on the characters, but instead I'll just say "watch streams and videos in whatever free time you have".  Here are some good users on Youtube to see P:M footage (P:M streams get posted in the Smashboards topic):

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoldenHeartNeko
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gimpyfish62
http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007
http://www.youtube.com/user/ProjectMelee
http://www.youtube.com/user/nonstandardtoaster?feature=watch


Just thinking about it more, this could've all been evaded if you just said "Congrats".  Haloed's been respected for his skills as an animator.  Whether you're excited or not is completely irrelevant.  It would've been nice to at least show support.

No more drama arguing [censored].



That [censored] needs to stay in high school, or at Bank of America.

Thanks.

Ah but the fun has only just begun Lolwutthehellamitalkingabout@_@

[ItalianStallion]

Ah but the fun has only just begun Lolwutthehellamitalkingabout@_@

Carry on, sir! Lmao at the hidden text.

[Segtendo]

*sigh*
Just drop it, you guys. Don't fill up Haloed's thread with this nonsense.

[Albafika]

Just thinking about it more, this could've all been evaded if you just said "Congrats".  Haloed's been respected for his skills as an animator.  Whether you're excited or not is completely irrelevant.  It would've been nice to at least show support.

Oh, I'm pretty sure Haloed is aware of how much I love all of his projects animating and PSA wise, and specially animating. It's a fact the animation's better, but I just feel it's a waste to recreate melee's animations again.

It "could've" been avoided, but I felt like voicing out my opinion, if not, I'd have been lying. And, you wouldn't have given me all this info otherwise. =P

Firstly, that was over half a year ago.  The amount that P:M has come along since then is actually insane.  Being a part of the dev team means that I know most of what goes on as regards to it.  Not only that, but I'm consistently watching streams and gameplay vids of P:M too and as a result I'm much more aware of the intricacies of the game.  That comment back then was a rather ignorant call on my part, because I'd mainly seen stuff on the Fox, Falco and other Melee top tiers etc i.e. the only characters that are being replicated very similarly to how they were in Melee (and even then, they aren't totally identical).  The fact of the matter is, even the old characters are either getting new tricks or are just getting better in general.

Of course you're entitled to your own opinion.  I'm not expecting you to like it, just to actually understand it properly and stating stuff like "moving Brawl back to its 6 years in the past prequel" doesn't really give that impression.

Also, Melee clone =/= Melee 2.0.  The statement Melee clone implies that they are trying to recreate the game to be exactly like Melee, which is not the case as aforementioned.  Melee 2.0 implies that it's a sequel.  As in it shows progression whilst retaining what was good about the game in the first place.  Think SMG and SMG2.  The engine is pretty much identical but with improvements here and there and new additions.  P:M is a similar case.  Rather than straying far away from what Melee lay gameplay wise (like Brawl did), it sticks to what Melee did right and improves upon it.  For example, Ledge Occupancy is now better in P:M than in Melee (in Melee it was impractically long, but in Brawl it was too short.  In P:M there's a healthy inbetween) and tethers now don't suck ass (see here: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3199 ) as well as other things here and there.

And don't even get me started on the characters.  I could go on a looooooong tangent on the characters, but instead I'll just say "watch streams and videos in whatever free time you have".  Here are some good users on Youtube to see P:M footage (P:M streams get posted in the Smashboards topic):

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoldenHeartNeko
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gimpyfish62
http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007
http://www.youtube.com/user/ProjectMelee
http://www.youtube.com/user/nonstandardtoaster?feature=watch

What you're saying makes sense, but then again, what I stated was, again, that I don't feel recreating animations from Melee is worth the time. My post above wasn't entirely aimed to the mechanics (Until you brought it up), it was more towards bringing back Melee's animations.

No more drama arguing [censored].



That [censored] needs to stay in high school, or at Bank of America.

Thanks.

*sigh*
Just drop it, you guys. Don't fill up Haloed's thread with this nonsense.

Quit the drama, you two. It's not like we're arguing, and it totally concerns Haloed's projects.

[_Data_Drain_]

Alright... I want to put my quarter in here...

On one hand, P:M does have it's own good ideas... However, I'd rather see completely new, high quality stuff... Yeah, I know it's not a complete Melee clone, but was it really needed to make Ganon, and Falco animation swaps again? I feel in some ways the changes P:M made were unneeded...

Sure, I'll give it a try when it's done... But that won't change the irks I have with it.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

*sigh*
Just drop it, you guys. Don't fill up Haloed's thread with this nonsense.

Hush you.  We're merely having a civil discussion that has relevance to what's been happening.  Nobody's trollin or hatin.  Just opinion statin and sharing info.

As regards to changing animations back to their Melee incarnations, that I can understand and infact it still kinda bothers me slightly.  However, it's kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" situation.  Falco's one of the characters that is kinda interesting.  It's difficult to give him new moves because it would mess up his state of balance, and considering Falco is one of the characters that sets the bar as regards to how the other characters should be, changing him unfortunately would cause a number of problems.

As for Ganon, well really he's a sort of mix since he was great in Melee.  He's kept a number of his Brawl moves like his F Tilt, D Tilt, Side B and Neutral B (which to be honest were really the main defining aspects of Brawl Ganon anyway).  Since it mixes aspects, Ganon is as a result better and more satisfying to play Ganon.  He can really deal some pain.

Also may I just add that recreating these Melee animations only applies to a minority (the characters that were already good in Melee) and even then, a lot of these characters had (aesthetically) the same moves in Brawl anyway (eg Falcon, Sheik, Jiggs etc).  Re-inventing these characters would take far too long and screw with the overall balance of the game. 

Again, I don't mind if people don't like it, since that kind of thing is inevitable.  Just want y'all to be enlightened

[Shadic]

Most of the animations that the PMBR needed recreated from Melee have already been done, so we're not "wasting" his time with those animations anyways.

The Falcon taunt that he did was a test of his skill/dedication to get into the PMBR, and is just a cool-looking taunt in general. haloedhero did a great job on it, and I'm sure he'll be a great member of the team.

[HaloedHero]

Wow, for some reason this thread decided to stop sending me updates, so I missed all of that.

To P:M's detractors, you're certainly entitled not to like it, but I didn't join to recreate Melee animations. Frankly, if that's all I was doing, that would be boring. That was just my test, as Shadic said, and when I was asked to do the test, and I actually LOOKED at the Brawl animation, the Brawl one was far from that awesome.

However, I do currently have a Melee animation recreation on my to-do list over there, but I have to say that it's for functional purposes. The move literally can't function as well if I don't tweak the animation to be more similar to Melee. Trust me. The animation from Melee isn't worse visually, but there are gameplay benefits to changing it, so why wouldn't we? Hardly a waste of my time.

The reason I want to get involved in this project is because, to me, Melee just played better. I'd rather Brawl have the amount of content it has, but with Melee's gameplay. The great thing about Melee is that YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAVEDASH IF YOU DON'T WANT TO (and I'm using that as an example about all Melee ATs). You're not required to use any of the advanced techniques to be good at the game. You can play your way with your group of friends, and it can be fun, and you can actually get quite good. Not tournament good, but if you're against ATs, why would you want to play on a tournament level anyway?

OR, you can play on the tournament scene, and you can learn to use the advanced techniques. I'd rather have a game where wavedashing is possible and not use it than a game that plays like slogging through molasses, but has no wavedashing.

But that's all just my opinion, and it really is pointless to argue. I thought Brawl's gameplay was a step backward for the franchise (though I personally couldn't care less about wavedashing and such.) I really just think Melee is more fun casually OR competitively, but I'd like a new game after more than ten years, so P:M is the logical step.

And aside from all that, the movesets of the characters that ARE changing from Melee (which is most of the cast) are awesome, and I'm already having a blast animating them.

Besides, even though I've done some PSA coding that is fairly ingenious (if I do say so myself [or anyone who's seen Scott Pilgrim and understands what it takes on a coding level to make some of the specials work]), I really would rather just animate. PM allows me to do that while having full faith that the coding end will be at the very least up to my standards.

So, yes, I'm on the team, and thank you all for your support. Long story short: Don't hate on P:M. I only hate on Brawl when people attack Melee or P:M, and I'd expect anyone who prefers Brawl to show the same deference. If we all followed that rule, no one would hate on anything, and the world would be a better place.

And this does mean that I will be abandoning my own projects indefinitely, but working on something like this is far more rewarding. So, I apologize to those who like my characters, but this is currently the best use of my talents.