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« Reply #1035 on: December 06, 2010, 05:32:40 AM » |
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You know? Charmander? That's a bleeping good point, they could have said to change him completely when he released that beta...
And, the balancing that's needed isn't hard, just less knock back, and knock back growth should do it... Hollow, you should just do whatever, I liked the move set enough as it is, just a little more balance is all he needs.
Hell, I already made a new final smash for him.
This time, he slashes out and if he hits someone, then he does the supernova.
...I'm still irked by all this... "Change the whole move set" thing... I would have just balanced what you have... Also, how many people said his move set was out of character? Really... *Sigh* Sorry, I'm just really annoyed...
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 05:47:34 AM by _Data_Drain_ »
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« Reply #1036 on: December 06, 2010, 06:09:57 AM » |
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u could try using more of aafyre's ideas for the moveset...
it has sum real good ideas
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« Reply #1037 on: December 06, 2010, 06:15:01 AM » |
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I only brought up how he didn't move or act anything like Sephiroth ever did. And I haven't been around the forums, only hearing on MSN from Jiro about wanting me and others to try the beta but wasn't sure about handing it to any of us. Otherwise I would have given input since Hollow started.
I never brought up balancing because like Oizen said, nobody in Brawl is balanced. If you want to really balance a character, just make them play how they would be and make them not dominate every Brawl character.
As far as I'm concerned from everytime he's fought, Sephiroth is fast, kinda low damage and decent knockback in air, decent ground damage and more knockback growth. Bad end lag to compensate. And like in Aafyre's request thread, his dash attack had some bad start up and end lag just like Ike's dash attack.
If Hollow brought it to the team's attention sooner then asking for the feature, he would have gotten our feedback way before finishing anything at all.
I'm not bashing his testers because I wouldn't know who tested, but Miacis is one of the best people to give a good character review, and you should ask more people with experience in making detailed characters for opinions. Testers who know from experience how to implement a new feel and can suggest what's lacking and where. Not saying that anyone who never made a new character wouldn't know what to point out, but they'd probably have more insight, especially being able to point things out specifically in the PSA coding-wise.
I know most people would probably want Dissidia Sephiroth with some Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts, but go over everything and brainstorm what you think would fit, take your time on it. Starting with the basic attacks and moving up to specials last. Then adding the little subtle things that aren't noticable to most people. They create the feel even if people wouldn't notice a tiny rumble/GFX/SFX tweak.
There's always changing whose AI he uses based on his moves and specials so CPU fights right.
Like Cloud, he has Link's AI so he'd charge his Neutral B from afar, use Side B from mid-range, Up-B's are similar enough, and he'd use Down-B now and then to far away enemies.
And Naruto, he has Marth's AI. This is for the multiple Side-B uses, Counter, and charging Neutral B or using in air Neutral B at mid range enough to dive and hit with it.
After you have him more or less finished, finding a good AI could help make or break the feeling of really fighting Sephiroth if someone else isn't using him.
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 06:32:52 AM by dingoberriz »
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« Reply #1038 on: December 06, 2010, 06:34:21 AM » |
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Pit's AI is okay for Sephiroth, because he can fly back to the stage.
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« Reply #1039 on: December 06, 2010, 06:36:49 AM » |
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Pit's AI is okay for Sephiroth, because he can fly back to the stage.
But there's also the other specials to think about. Down B reflect. Neutral B charge and aim from really far away. And semi-random Side-B. The other ones that could probably assist with CPU flight would be Sonic, Yoshi, Ness, Lucas, ROB, DK, Dedede, Bowser, and Peach. Probably more but aren't coming to mind. |
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 06:38:08 AM by dingoberriz »
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« Reply #1040 on: December 06, 2010, 06:38:28 AM » |
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Yeah... But I would think Pit's AI is the only one that can recover good... If he can't recover, then he's gonna be way to easy to beat.
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« Reply #1041 on: December 06, 2010, 07:16:26 AM » |
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I should download this and see what's what. I might beable to rescue this since I do 2nd Sephi in dissidia.
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« Reply #1042 on: December 06, 2010, 07:18:24 AM » |
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Yeah, maybe a Dissidia player would be best... *Sigh* I'm never giving feedback again... Now I just feel stupid, I guess I shouldn't have suggested slow aerials... I just didn't want him to gimp better then Meta Knight...
But Rydia? I do think you would be good for this project... Good luck!
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 07:23:44 AM by _Data_Drain_ »
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« Reply #1043 on: December 06, 2010, 07:25:05 AM » |
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Well I ment along the lines of animation, not psa lol
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« Reply #1044 on: December 06, 2010, 07:28:41 AM » |
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Yeah, maybe a Dissidia player would be best... *Sigh* I'm never giving feedback again... Now I just feel stupid, I guess I shouldn't have suggested slow aerials... I just didn't want him to gimp better then Meta Knight...
But Rydia? I do think you would be good for this project... Good luck!
Data, it's not that your feedback was bad, I understand what you were aiming for by balancing him, a Sephiroth killable by the rest, but, seriously, the actual FAir didn't feel like Sephiroth at all... Other than using his both arms, I actually enjoy these ideas, less KB/Damage, faster and more end lag, sounds pretty much accurated. |
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« Reply #1045 on: December 06, 2010, 07:32:37 AM » |
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True... As long as he has end lag, and little knock back, I guess that's fair enough...
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« Reply #1046 on: December 06, 2010, 07:42:37 AM » |
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Well Data you weren't the only one giving feedback on this. Many people, you included only talked about the balancing. I was the first to say that this felt nothing like Sephiroth and the moveset as is isn't fitting. Don't beat yourself up alone because you and others were only giving your own personal balancing opinions. Nobody cut to the heart of the character before thinking about what needs balancing for what animations he was given. I honestly can't even think as far as balancing for his moveset since it just feels like "Generic Paladin with long sword" right now. >_> I was expecting to be flamed pretty bad for coming in and saying everything I said. I'm just glad Hollow took my criticism in a positive way. It's one thing to make a Sephiroth PSA, but another to make a character play and feel like Sephiroth. Not just from a Dissidia standpoint since I've only used Cloud and Cecil in Dissidia. I was basing how this PSA feels on KH1/2, FF:CC and AC. He fights in a similar fashion in all of those, just magic to sword skills vary between games for him. Dissidia would just provide more solid animation ideas for moves, aerial attacks and I honestly like his Dissidia Super Nova a lot better then the generic one. Shoots a shockwave that has to hit. Then the Nova flies towards them/surrounds them and blows them up. Similar to Ike's final. Main hit zone with collateral mid special. That seems a lot more fitting then the big planet exploding one that makes the sun expand and wipe out the Earth. Just to not kill. That's probably going to be my only special suggestion here btw.  |
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 07:49:45 AM by dingoberriz »
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« Reply #1047 on: December 06, 2010, 07:49:07 AM » |
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^ Lol, you and I are in the exact position regarding Dissidia.
Anyways, I do think this PSA would reach the front page if done right, as this one is really one of the PSAs most wanted but never really "started" 'til now.
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« Reply #1049 on: December 06, 2010, 07:56:25 AM » |
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Well... I guess that's true... I do beat myself up too much... But I just feel stupid, I didn't even notice he wasn't Sephiroth like?
Well anyway... Good luck Hollow, and to whoever helps him out.  It seems like nobody else noticed that much either. Or just kept quiet. Miacis didn't say anything until I pointed out. Not easy to come into someone's PSA thread just to say "You seemed to have done everything wrong. >_>" Since a PSA is based on a person's personal experience with that character normally. They can't make something everyone wants. Nothing pleases everyone. Even Cloud was hated for being strictly Dissidia Cloud. Giving him magic. Some people hated that saying it doesn't fit him at all. Hollow brought this to my attention. This seemed like it really need the push to really work as Sephiroth. Plus, it's for Hollow's benefit that I said all I said. |
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