SDo0m's Dark Void: Deadpool Release (pg 512)! Major thanks to Mephisto!

[SiLeNtDo0m]

So, your guys' idea of progression for Shiek, is making Shiek like she was in Melee? No distinct, unique changes to her playstyle -As fas as I could tell from reading her page-? Making her like she was in Melee seems more like a step backward or a lack of progression than a progress to me.

You seem to still be missing the point.  As I said, we're balancing the cast to the Melee top tiers, so as a result we're restoring the Melee top tiers to how they were so that we actually have a level to balance to.  Adding some kind of playstyle change to a character that doesn't need it will not only completely screw up the state of fine balance that we're collectively spending hours each day trying to achieve but it also means we have to waste more hours of our lives making changes to a character that doesn't need them when we could be making changes to characters, stages etc that actually DO need them.  It's hardly a step back when in Melee the top tiers were more technical and had more fleshed out metagames than any character in Brawl and when they're essentially the foundation.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  

We still do a hell of a lot of experimentation with other characters which is part of the reason why we haven't included the full roster in demo 2 (10 characters are missing in demo 2, 8 of them are undergoing experimentation.  The other 2 are Ice Climbers and Olimar and we're having a hard time properly coding them).

Also, spell SHEIK correctly please (not aimed specifically at you, but it bothers me to no end when people spell that incorrectly.  Seriously the character has been around for over a decade and has been in two Smash games)

[Kagemaru]

I really couldn't give less of a [censored] that she was Top Tier in Melee. If you're gonna make a progression, make her like she was in Melee and take it a step forward instead of just making her like she was in Melee and just leaving her.

^
This...

I mained both Fox and Sheik and I did so before I even knew what a Tier List was.

I didn't know Fox was Tier1 in Melee until I discovered hacking melee and brawl was even possible...

So I didn't play either of them for the fact that they were top Tier. I played them cause they were fun and suited my play style. That aside, just because she now has a tether in vBrawl and didn't have it in Melee doesn't make it a useless buff. Her recovery is less then adequate and that chain was very useful for ledge guarding on top of being a better form of recovery then her up-b.

Returning something to it's former glory doesn't mean it'll be as glorious as it once was because standards change over time.

Making Fox and Sheik their melee replicas while Lucario is waltzing around with a combo and aura system... Totally balanced.

Also, giving Fox back his wave shine is BROKEN. Yeah he had a bad falling speed and could be combo'd easily, but you start popping off Waveshines, and you're pretty much garunteed a win on stages like Final and Battlefield. And yes, it takes skill to do, but that level of skill isn't inherently hard to obtain. Sitting down for 10-15 minutes dedicated to practicing it will accomplish that. I should know... I did it just to say I could.

But hey... Project: M is gonna be what it is. I wont be using Lucario to much cause I like Kid Buu. I'm probably gonna stick with Brawl- Fox until something more fun catches my eye and I'm gonna stick with vBrawl Sheik / Spider-Man (Or Neji when I'm done with him).

On the plus side... I like what was done with Sonic. Moonwalking ftw.

[Albafika]

^
This...

I mained both Fox and Sheik and I did so before I even knew what a Tier List was.

I didn't know Fox was Tier1 in Melee until I discovered hacking melee and brawl was even possible...

So I didn't play either of them for the fact that they were top Tier. I played them cause they were fun and suited my play style. That aside, just because she now has a tether in vBrawl and didn't have it in Melee doesn't make it a useless buff. Her recovery is less then adequate and that chain was very useful for ledge guarding on top of being a better form of recovery then her up-b.

Zelda and Sheik have been my main in Melee and Brawl. Your point is?

Also, giving Fox back his wave shine is BROKEN. Yeah he had a bad falling speed and could be combo'd easily, but you start popping off Waveshines, and you're pretty much garunteed a win on stages like Final and Battlefield. And yes, it takes skill to do, but that level of skill isn't inherently hard to obtain. Sitting down for 10-15 minutes dedicated to practicing it will accomplish that. I should know... I did it just to say I could.

But hey... Project: M is gonna be what it is. I wont be using Lucario to much cause I like Kid Buu. I'm probably gonna stick with Brawl- Fox until something more fun catches my eye and I'm gonna stick with vBrawl Sheik / Spider-Man (Or Neji when I'm done with him).

On the plus side... I like what was done with Sonic. Moonwalking ftw.

I suggest you try it before trashtalking their ideas first.

I really couldn't give less of a [censored] that she was Top Tier in Melee. If you're gonna make a progression, make her like she was in Melee and take it a step forward instead of just making her like she was in Melee and just leaving her.

Enlighten me, what were the big step forward that Sheik gave from Melee to Brawl, other than the tether grab? I don't see much progression and don't see how it was a step forward, honestly.

Anyways, this is derailing enough. SDo0m, why don't you make a P:M topic on OFF-Topic section?

[Eternal Yoshi]

Because comments like the ones on this page and the last one led to it being locked...

[Solar99]

People are seriously arguing over Project M again? :srs:
When I finally came here I was expecting disscusions about making animations and new ideas for PSAs.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Anyways, this is derailing enough. SDo0m, why don't you make a P:M topic on OFF-Topic section?

I plan on doing so on demo release day. 

[Kagemaru]

Zelda and Sheik have been my main in Melee and Brawl. Your point is?I suggest you try it before trashtalking their ideas first.Enlighten me, what were the big step forward that Sheik gave from Melee to Brawl, other than the tether grab? I don't see much progression and don't see how it was a step forward, honestly.

Anyways, this is derailing enough. SDo0m, why don't you make a P:M topic on OFF-Topic section?

1: I hardly trash talked their ideas. But what is there new to try when its a replica of melee? I already know how its gonna play and anything thats not spot on isn't hard to imagine.

2: It doesn't matter if that tether is the only step forward vBrawl gave Sheik, it was a GOOD step forward. The term don't fix what aint broken comes to mind here. And on a side note, maybe we play Sheik differently... but I like to utilize Sheik's ledge game. The fact that she can wall cling on top of having a tether means she can stay out there on the side of the stage for a long time and guard that ledge. Taking that aspect away from her takes away some of her usability. But thats my opinion.

3: How is this derailing? SDoom is the one who brought up Project:M in the first place :/

4: Opinions will be opinions will be opinions. Not everyone is gonna like something someone is working on or something someone said. And how many pages does it take to converse about a mystery PSA? I didn't see a problem with a slight topic change. :/

[Beyond]

<.<

Sooooo.... this new PSA comin' out... lets talk about that.

[Velen]

1: I hardly trash talked their ideas. But what is there new to try when its a replica of melee? I already know how its gonna play and anything thats not spot on isn't hard to imagine.

Uh... It's not necessarily a replica of Melee.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

3: How is this derailing? SDoom is the one who brought up Project:M in the first place :/

hero3120 asked what the demonstration graphic was for and I answered for P:M Toon Link.  Then Seg asked about P:M Toon Link so I directed him to a site.  That's hardly cue for all us to start rambling.  I admit to contributing, but I'm also now saying to stop discussing it as we're getting no where.  Wait until the demo comes out and I make a separate topic so we can ramble there.

<.<

Sooooo.... this new PSA comin' out... lets talk about that.

It's actually going very smoothly so far.  I must admit, he's significantly less pick up and play compared to my other characters and a lot less "combo" based.  He'll require some good spacing, but hopefully if I can design him right he should feel fun and satisfying to play even at the beta stages. 

[Ninka_kiwi]

SDoom you are such a tease with not telling us what your new PSA is >.>

[SiLeNtDo0m]

SDoom you are such a tease with not telling us what your new PSA is >.>

It's my cruel method of hype building.

I love watching you suffer creating suspense...
                                                        ^
Yeah............................................that one

[Carnage]

so i bet its a character with ranged attacks probably bomberman  related due to the bomb but its just my guess.

[Segtendo]

so i bet its a character with ranged attacks probably bomberman  related due to the bomb but its just my guess.

*facepalm*
It's Project M Toon Link.

[MandoWolfe]

It's my cruel method of hype building.

I love watching you suffer creating suspense...
                                                        ^
Yeah............................................that one

LOLZ XDD Well it seems to me that this character is going to be a more mid to long range fighter... which sounds pretty interesting to me. :D