WIP PSA Workshop

[Large Leader]

White line? Nah, I was thinking a blinking white rectangle over Hector and his foe, like when you confirm an attack action on a foe and the camera zooms into the combat screen. And then the map is still visible in the background, just darkened out.

That'd be an effect that'd take place DURING the final smash, not before. At least in my opinion.


Alright, I know both of these suck, but which one is... more passable?

[Eternal Yoshi]

Uhh.... You may want to give him more endlag to better convey that the axe is heavy. You can always add an IASA frame earlier than the ending if needed, but there's not enough winddown if you catch my meaning.

I would say to look at how Ike's heavy swinging moves work when it comes to endlag.

[Large Leader]

I didn't edit the attacks after importing them into BBox, so I didn't add extra frames to add lag. But I'll definitely be adding frames before and after the swing.

But what about the leg and bust/waist/hip positioning? I'm more worried about that.

[TheShyGuy]

The axe itself is balanced on his shoulders (or as close as possible), so that's where you probably get the weightlessness from. I also want to give it a bit of the Ike "I can hold it in one hand and you can't" feeling. I'll see what I can do with the axe.

I think the issue comes from the pose not being broken up enough.  All body parts move at the same time at the same speed- even on the nose flick thing.  What you're missing is called overlapping action.  The main parts you can add overlap to are the shoulders/axe, hips and knees.  

[Large Leader]

I think the issue comes from the pose not being broken up enough.  All body parts move at the same time at the same speed- even on the nose flick thing.  What you're missing is called overlapping action.  The main parts you can add overlap to are the shoulders/axe, hips and knees.

Makes sense. I'll add some overlapping with the right arm/shoulder and hips.

What about the Axe Swing, though?

[TheShyGuy]

I'm starting to like this forum again.  I don't gotta wait ages to get replies =p

___

The second one looks better except for the startup when the axe switched orientation.  But you're still suffering from moving everything at the same rate.  It's really killing the animation.  Theres no acceleration or deceleration to the swing.  It doesn't make sense to support the axe on his shoulders, but then be able to pick it up single handed with one of the toughest hand placement to support the axe...  Let the shoulders be the pivot point instead. Oh yea don't forget about weight distribution. But  I'm writing too much, so I'll add more feedback if you work on it more.

The hand placement on the axe doesn't make much sense unless the action was more of a large swing which isn't meant for slowing down easily- which is lost since he moves back to idle reeeeally fast with zero recoil.- Last I played Brawl, I don't remember Ike being all too quick with recoil or startup.  Here's a few references

Same hand placement.  The swing fits since he wants alot of power and isn't worried about slowing it down -the log will do that.

(Also notice that it's a baseball swing and his weight is on his back leg.  I might be wrong about hand placement with axes about how easy they are to stop.  In my mind, an axe is top heavy so deceleration is tougher for axes than for weapons that are better distributed-like a baseball bat...)

In this one, the hand placement is distributed.  The higher one allows better translational movement and supports most of the axe weight.  The lower one allows better control over rotational movement and supports creating torque.

....spoilered images

[Large Leader]

I'm starting to like this forum again.  I don't gotta wait ages to get replies =p

You're gonna jinx it, mate.

The second one looks better except for the startup when the axe switched orientation.  

I don't know how that actually happened tbh. Planning to fix that.

Theres no acceleration or deceleration to the swing.  It doesn't make sense to support the axe on his shoulders, but then be able to pick it up single handed with one of the toughest hand placement to support the axe...  Let the shoulders be the pivot point instead. Oh yea don't forget about weight distribution.

I'll be adding more frames before and after the swing. I didn't edit this at all after importing it from Maya, so it still needs improvement.

The hand placement on the axe doesn't make much sense unless the action was more of a large swing which isn't meant for slowing down easily- which is lost since he moves back to idle reeeeally fast with zero recoil.- Last I played Brawl, I don't remember Ike being all too quick with recoil or startup.

Pretty much what I said above. I need to add lag in the animation itself. The hand placement was made when the model was vertexed. I could (and probably should) change it so that his hand is more on the center of the handle.

 Here's a few references

Same hand placement.  The swing fits since he wants alot of power and isn't worried about slowing it down -the log will do that.

(Also notice that it's a baseball swing and his weight is on his back leg.  I might be wrong about hand placement with axes about how easy they are to stop.  In my mind, an axe is top heavy so deceleration is tougher for axes than for weapons that are better distributed-like a baseball bat...)

In this one, the hand placement is distributed.  The higher one allows better translational movement and supports most of the axe weight.  The lower one allows better control over rotational movement and supports creating torque.

Alright, noted.

[TheShyGuy]

Is there a reason you can't make the full animation in Maya?  You can always learn a little bit about IK rigging and add a placeholder axe.  The more flexible you get at rigging, the better you'll be able to make animations.  Instead of being tied down to a single rig (the HumanIK), you can change up your rig in the moment for whatever action/animation you need.

Checkout this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0WQJtjZZ0 and some of this http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=54&t=26998&page=1&pp=15

[Large Leader]

Is there a reason you can't make the full animation in Maya?

I don't know how to add individual frames like in BBox (where you can randomly insert random frames in). That and afaik, there's no way to add swords or other things like that to the HumanIK.

You can always learn a little bit about IK rigging and add a placeholder axe.  The more flexible you get at rigging, the better you'll be able to make animations.  Instead of being tied down to a single rig (the HumanIK), you can change up your rig in the moment for whatever action/animation you need.

Checkout this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0WQJtjZZ0 and some of this http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=54&t=26998&page=1&pp=15

I'll definitely take a look at them. Thanks for the info.

[TheShyGuy]

I don't know how to add individual frames like in BBox (where you can randomly insert random frames in). That and afaik, there's no way to add swords or other things like that to the HumanIK.

-Right click on the timeline -> keys-> add/remove inbetween

-It should be as simple as adding a custom IK rig for the sword bone + a proxy mesh.  I'll look into it since I'm gonna learn how to rig anyways.

[JamietheAuraUser]

Yeah, if he's gonna be using an axe that big, the swing is probably going to come from the hips and shoulder, not from the arm itself. The arm is simply used to maintain proper aim and control, while the shoulder and hips provide momentum. In fact, that's true of most fighting styles: Power comes from momentum. Precision comes from strength. A total lightweight with very little arm strength can throw a very strong punch with proper use of torque and momentum. He just won't be able to aim when doing so.

In fact, go find a big heavy stick and try acting it out yourself to figure out what you have to do to get the swing out with the most speed and power. Maybe try to test what the most efficient way is to stop the swing and retain some form of balance and control. (Preferably don't do this in a small cramped room, or anywhere where you're likely to break something.)

[Large Leader]

-Right click on the timeline -> keys-> add/remove inbetween

Fantastic!

-It should be as simple as adding a custom IK rig for the sword bone + a proxy mesh.  I'll look into it since I'm gonna learn how to rig anyways.

Keep me updated. I'll cry if you don't

On a random walk I was taking today, I decided to completely redo the attack (so it's a one handed swing, as opposed to a two handed one). The location of where the axe holds the handle will be the same (unless I edit it before I make the gif), but I'll make it so that the hand is about half way on the handle.

[TheShyGuy]

You should also know that you should be able to animate the normal bones in Maya without IK instead of having to do it in BB.  

I'm unsure how the idea of only using HumanIK for animating started, but just so others know,  the Human IK is just an IK rig (common sense).  Nothing about it should make it work in Brawl like magic.  In the end, you bake onto the normal bones which is the equivalent of animating the normal bones so I don't see why animating them manually or using a custom IK rig should break anything.

Basically what I'm saying is that there is nothing to "figure out".  Go make or attach custom IK rigs or animate like you would in BB.  It'll export just fine.

____

A quick sanity check.  The sword animates fine, I was just moving a whole bunch of things.

Maya, BrawlBox Gifs

The key tangents are messed up, but I think that's on BB.  I think the tangents are generated instead of read.

[Large Leader]

Would you export it the same way as you do with HumanIK?

[TheShyGuy]

Yeap, select all bones -> export selected.
(ofc, ensure the settings are correct too)