Kratos Aurion v.2.25...Updated 3-11-11 @5:00PM

[Psycho Philia]

He can't have all of his ground moves an arte???

*Watching the moveset posted in page 1.*

Ah, it's funny, all grounded moves excepted the neutral A attack and the dash attack are artes, and it was really good like this, but I thought it was impossible, in fact it is, this is the truth! Then I don't see why we should put a merely basic slash like this as a down tilt to replace Sonic Thrust, I know this slash can be used without spell charge, from the very beginning, but still Sonic Thrust as a down tilt was very good, so I don't see any need of replace it with a merely basic attack.

And I was talking about Sonic Thrust as a dash attack which don't fit Brawl dash attacks, in the case you didn't understood... When I was talking about an arte like this, the arte was Sonic Thrust...

And besides, I take your words fully:

The only basic attack his has is his Neutral Attack.

It's false, for now, all his aerials and his dash attack are basic attacks. And I'm pretty sure some aerials will still be basic attacks.

[Royal_Blade]

He can't have all of his ground moves an arte???

*Watching the moveset posted in page 1.*

Ah, it's funny, all grounded moves excepted the neutral A attack and the dash attack are artes, and it was really good like this, but I thought it was impossible, in fact it is, this is the truth! Then I don't see why we should put a merely basic slash like this as a down tilt to replace Sonic Thrust, I know this slash can be used without spell charge, from the very beginning, but still Sonic Thrust as a down tilt was very good, so I don't see any need of replace it with a merely basic attack.

And I was talking about Sonic Thrust as a dash attack which don't fit Brawl dash attacks, in the case you didn't understood... When I was talking about an arte like this, the arte was Sonic Thrust...

Well, not that he can't, but he shouldn't. I know artes are important to Tales characters, but they shouldn't have a movelist made up of them.
Look at the SSF2 Lloyd, the artes he has are STilt, SSmash, DSmash, DAir, N/S/U/D Specials, and Final Smash. He doesn't have movelist full of artes, yet he plays extremely well. (Test him out if you may.)

And Sonic Thrust doesn't necessarily HAVE to stop his movements to actually use it. Look at Fox's dash attack, he does a straight kick without altering his momentum. Why can't Sonic Thrust do the same?

When I was talking about an arte like this, the arte was Sonic Thrust...

Oh, i thought you were still referring to the spell charge. Okay, then.

The only basic attack his has is his Neutral Attack.

It's false, for now, all his aerials and his dash attack are basic attacks. And I'm pretty sure some aerials will still be basic attacks.

I meant a Tales basic attack, cause tales characters can perform many basic attacks with a push of the control stick.

Edit:

This always works for me http://www.filehippo.com/download_the_gimp/

Thanks Divine. Where could i find the original textures? are they in the FitMarth.pac?

[Psycho Philia]

It's a fact, Sonic Thrust can't be used as a dash attack. They need to stop to do this, and to make a thrust which moves them very little because they need to position themselves correctly in order to do this. Especially a character like Kratos with his playstyle. So it can't be a dash attack, no matter what you say, it can't be! And besides, it is an arte, and when you execute an arte, your arte make you stop before executing, so we can't put any arte for Kratos as a dash attack.

And I don't care about Lloyd project, it's completely different, he is an import character, with animations mainly directly taken from Tos2 from what I saw, and besides it's completely different, because all his artes are isolated artes, which are very unique. I mean, if I recall correctly, there is no beast and raging beast which are more or less the same movements. There is only one.

Kratos have much more isolated artes, so his playstyle with his artes is much wider than Lloyd's. What have been done for Lloyd is truly representative of all his actions, because all his artes that he uses in Tos 2 are there, and by this, I mean the originals artes, because the others are merely altered artes or combinations. So here, of course, there is enough artes to represent him.

And about Kratos, I think it was the case, and it is the case, because if Kratos was really that bad with all these artes, why do you think Divine Overlord chose them? And why do you think there were, unless I'm wrong, nobody saying that the moveslist was wrong because there were too artes? The only thing about the artes that I could agree at least, is to have so much spells assigned in the down B, 9 is a big number according to me, but still, it is a way of doing psa for a medium magician like him.

After that, we can continue to argue indefinitely until the Psa is updated, but to be honest, I have a bad feeling about what you says, because if he had made from the beginning a psa with so much artes, being so far to add so much spell, I don't think he will "retreat" like this. And I fully agree with him, because all the basic attacks that you use in Tos in fact are reflected by the neutral attack so I don't think there's need for more than the neutral attack, and than the dash attack, and some aerials I think. The psa was already good like this in ground, let's keep it excepted some changes that were decided before.

[Royal_Blade]

I never mentioned the Lloyd Project!!

I said SSF2 (Super Smash Flash 2) which has a completely different moveset than the Lloyd Project.

And I see your point on Sonic Thrust. Then what should be the Dash attack? Light Spear? (that was a joke.)

Edit: Why not have the horizontal slash as the dash attack. It works well with his running animation cause he can use it almost instantly.

[Psycho Philia]

If you were not so lazy, and didn't typed abbreviations, maybe I wouldn't have made this mistake, and besides, taking a moveset from a fan game like this is the last thing I would have thought, I didn't even know there were Smash bros fan games, and according to me in this discussion, it worth absolutely nothing, because we're talking about the true Brawl, but be careful, it is only my opinion...

Oh, as a dash attack, I think Light spear can be really really really really really good! Or, we can just let the dash attack as it is now, it suits him well too, not so well than the light spear attack obviously because it is the best attack in all the project in fact, no I'm wrong, the best idea that was thought in the whole history of humanity, but it suits him well though.

[Zeljius]

Zeljius: It is already a little the case, with Spread for example, and Cyclone (even if Cyclone it's true needs to be changed.) But it's true it can be more like Brawl, but still it will have to fit him too, those two elements are required. This is probably why I will make some aerials suggestions that are not used in the game, but will fit him perfectly.

Exactly. Glad see you know where im comming from

-We'll Keep gungnir for side special? I'm fine with that. (No Helpless)
-Demon Fang can stay side tilt
-Sonic Thrust can be the dash attack.
-DTilt can be the Horizontal Slash. (With or without Spell Charge, it doesn't matter)

Sonic Thrust as dash attack? Why the hell didnt i think of that!? xD
Sounds like a great idea in my opinion

[Royal_Blade]

If you were not so lazy, and didn't typed abbreviations, maybe I wouldn't have made this mistake, and besides, taking a moveset from a fan game like this is the last thing I would have thought, I didn't even know there were Smash bros fan games, and according to me in this discussion, it worth absolutely nothing, because we're talking about the true Brawl, but be careful, it is only my opinion...

Oh, as a dash attack, I think Light spear can be really really really really really good! Or, we can just let the dash attack as it is now, it suits him well too, not so well than the light spear attack obviously because it is the best attack in all the project in fact, no I'm wrong, the best idea that was thought in the whole history of humanity, but it suits him well though.

^Wow... so we agree? light spear as a dash attack? The dash attack now is Marth's, so it would be best to change it.

And there are so many smash bros fan games that i can't even count.Though there aren't many good ones, but Super Smash Flash 2 is the best of them all because it is extremely brawl-like. And what's wrong with "comparing" movesets from a fan game for a hacked character? I don't see the issue with your first paragraph.

-We'll Keep gungnir for side special? I'm fine with that. (No Helpless)
-Demon Fang can stay side tilt
-Sonic Thrust can be the dash attack.
-DTilt can be the Horizontal Slash. (With or without Spell Charge, it doesn't matter)

Sonic Thrust as dash attack? Why the hell didnt i think of that!? xD
Sounds like a great idea in my opinion

There seems to be issues with that so it probably won't turn out so.

[Psycho Philia]

Yeah, we totally agree, light spear as a dash attack!!!!!!!!

The dash attack of Marth is already good, I don't see any need to change it, unless you have a true idea of a dash attack with some videos as reference in order for all people that are here to truly understand what it is!

I said you that it is only my opinion about comparing movesets from a fan game and for hacked characters, and I will say you why. It is because I don't believe in fan games like this, just because of this, it is sad, but it is what I think. And a fan game according to me is not part of the smash bros series, so I see absolutely no interest of mentioning it, it is COMPLETELY different! If there are some things that we can compare, these are the characters in the smash bros series, so ssb, ssbb, and ssbm, no more. And of course, the hacked characters who are just a modification of Brawl and who becomes a true part of this game. I'm pretty sure you won't understand my opinion, but it is this, and I won't change it even if I had the possibility of having all the gold of the Earth. And besides, this isn't because a fan game features a tales of character who has a lot of basic attacks that Divine Overlord has to do like this, and I think this is truly what he has done, by judging the number of the artes, which fits Kratos really well excepted one and some that needs to be changed a little!

[Royal_Blade]

Marth's dash attack is good. (I main Marth so i know that.) But it's up to Divine whether or not it is chosen.

And yes I do see your point. I don't need to explain why so we'll leave it at that.

So what's next on the list that could be fixed?

Oh! That random extension his Up Special has when you hold A. I don't think its necessary.
Although the frame(s) would be nice for Fierce Demon Fang. Who else thinks this?

[Psycho Philia]

The frames for Fierce demon fang, I suppose you want to make it faster? I wouldn't say that this is really needed, it doesn't annoy me, what annoys me is that the blade eject and inflicts damage, normally it shouldn't, it is only the shockwave that is important. It can be explained because the base of this attack is Marth's forward smash animation, but in Tos, Fierce demon fang animation is different. If the animation can't be modified, which I can easily understand, in that case, make the blade doesn't inflict damage, like demon fang attack in fact, it would be much more representative of Kratos, and this time the shockwave will work all the time.

The extension for Light spear, I already said it was too powerful, it's true, it's very powerful, but it is hard to hit with so... I don't really think it is necessary, but at the same time... Honestly I'm mixed, because if Divine Overlord put this animation, wasn't it in order to try to make the movement where Kratos falls? If it is this indeed, then it should be kept, but not as an extension anymore, and modified to look like more than Kratos's light spear end. Again, if it is possible. Because I don't know if Divine Overlord will be able to do it, we don't know, only he knows.

An other thing that can be fixed, is the chain of Lightning blade, and super lightning blade, I find it VERY difficult to hit with these two attacks if they are chained... It would be good to fix it.

[Royal_Blade]

I agree with the chain of Lightning Blade to Super Lightning Blade is difficult. That does need to be fixed.
And has Divine made it so the lightning appears when you hit someone with the blade or does it appear after the thrust occurs like in Vesperia?

That's fine if there's an issue with getting a proper a Fierce Demon Fang animation. If so, could you take the Project M's Shield Breaker for Fierce Demon Fang. It would look better.

Edit:
I found a glitch with Super Lightning Blade ONLY if you chain it from Lightning Blade. You can cancel S.Lightning Blade mid-way with ANY action you want (including another Lightning Blade) while keeping the momentum from S.Lightning Blade. I stumbled upon this while fighting Lloyd w/ renkaken's Kratos. And I tested that you can infinite your way across anyplace. (By canceling S.Lightning Blade into another Lightning Blade to chain into another S.Lightning Blade and etc.)

Surprisingly, it doesn't work if you use a fully charged Lightning Blade (Essentially S.Lightning Blade)

The above statement should be looked at and fixed.

Edit2:

The frames for Fierce demon fang, I suppose you want to make it faster? I wouldn't say that this is really needed, it doesn't annoy me, what annoys me is that the blade eject and inflicts damage, normally it shouldn't, it is only the shockwave that is important. It can be explained because the base of this attack is Marth's forward smash animation, but in Tos, Fierce demon fang animation is different. If the animation can't be modified, which I can easily understand, in that case, make the blade doesn't inflict damage, like demon fang attack in fact, it would be much more representative of Kratos, and this time the shockwave will work all the time.

I'm talking about the frames for the extension, they would look good if they would be used for Fierce Demon Fang.

[Psycho Philia]

The Lightning appears even if you doesn't hit the opponent, it is completely a matter of taste here, but as it seems it is more a Tos kratos, I suppose the need of hit the opponent would be more appreciated, which is not my case because the two are fine for me.

I didn't noticed this glitch at all, indeed it has to

[Royal_Blade]

Well, I got the pictures for Kratos' ToVS colors. Unfortunately, he has only four colors. And that's including his original. Theres a red, black, and white. So i'll make a custom Blue and Green to fit Marth's color scheme. I'll have to ask renkaken if i can recolor his vertex. (cause it's better, Divine, i'm sorry to say.)

Edit:
I'll re-texture Divine's Kratos later this week. I'm gonna be busy soon.

[Fliptocat]

Lookitslink made that vertex, not DivineOverlord IIRC.

[Royal_Blade]

^Sorry about that

Thanks for that Fliptocat.