Something that occurred to me/slightly bothered me...

[SiLeNtDo0m]

None of my usual tomfoolery with the poll this time.  The question is straight and simple. 

Why don't very many people persist at making PSAs?

Seriously, the number of times I've seen somebody fairly new come, start working on a PSA project and then just give up half way through is quite sad.  I question what exactly the reasons are for people not wanting to carry it on and at least complete a project.  The questions are basically in the poll.

Another thing I'd like to know is what exactly people like me (who have a decent amount of PSA knowledge) can do to help these people.  Obvious answer is tutorials, but be more specific.  Vertexers only need one or two tutorials and they're set.  Stage hackers need a few, and their all clearly explained by Mewtwo2000.  However, with PSA, you can't set all of it into tutorials, because there is far FAR too much to summarise into tutorials.

Furthermore, it seems that they receive less feedback comments.  I do however know why this is.  Let's take compare it to a vertex.  With a vertex, the only thing you really have to properly critique on is how it looks, and the story of how it looks is told by a picture.  You don't even have to play or test it to tell whether it's good or not.  Furthermore, it matters less if the character is known or not.  If it looks good, people are likely to download it.

However, with PSA, the person has to actually play with the thing.  Even a series of videos isn't enough sometimes.  Not to mention that people are far less likely to be interested in it if they don't know the character.  A perfect example is my Viewtiful Joe PSA.  If you've played all my PSAs, and set aside all bias for a character, one could easily say that he was my best PSA.  Animations, presentation, balance and variety exceeded any of my other PSAs.  Heck there are even recolours and a sound pack and everything.  A total of 6 months of work went into that PSA.  Yet he's my least downloaded PSA.  Even my freaking Burst Sonic PSA has more downloads.

What I'm trying to say is that vertexes, stage hacks and almost every other kind of hack are rated/downloaded by how they should be rated.  How they look, how they resemble the character and how much effort was put into them.  However, PSAs seem to be rated/downloaded largely because of who the character is.  If they're from a major franchise (Sonic, DBZ, Final Fantasy, etc) then they get downloads.  If not, well, unless you've previously earned a reputation for making good PSAs it probably won't get the appreciation it deserves. 

tl;dr?

So how come making PSAs/Animations is less appealing than other hacks to people?
Why do some PSAs not get the downloads, constructive feedback and appreciation they deserve?
What can people like me do to help more people get into PSAs?

[JDub]

I've actually been meaning to get into PSA for a while now, but part of it is coming up with ideas. That's not to say I don't have any ideas. I actually have a few. It's just the problem is the hacks to base them on just aren't there, and by that I mean, vertexes and textures and stuff. Should I get into PSA, I'd kind of restricted to vertexes other people make. I mean, I COULD make the PSA without the vertex/texture, there, but that makes it lose the feel of, "Hey, I'm playing as *insert character here*". You could always request vertexes, but those more often then not get ignored. I, personally, am unable to vertex, and my texturing is crap, so I can't really make the vertex/texture myself.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

I've actually been meaning to get into PSA for a while now, but part of it is coming up with ideas. That's not to say I don't have any ideas. I actually have a few. It's just the problem is the hacks to base them on just aren't there, and by that I mean, vertexes and textures and stuff. Should I get into PSA, I'd kind of restricted to vertexes other people make. I mean, I COULD make the PSA without the vertex/texture, there, but that makes it lose the feel of, "Hey, I'm playing as *insert character here*". You could always request vertexes, but those more often then not get ignored. I, personally, am unable to vertex, and my texturing is crap, so I can't really make the vertex/texture myself.

This is very true and I've decided to add it to the poll.  Infact, I was very lucky when it came to Dudley.  KTH was kind enough to fulfil my request.  But a lot of the time people aren't so lucky.  Also, it seems that in some cases, there are fantastic vertexes for characters that wouldn't really work too well as PSAs.  Furthermore, PSA is probably the most restrictive form of hacking.  There are so many things we can't do.

[vm19961126]

I tried using PSA, I wanted to make a moveset for the king xD
But I kinda failed, I just don't realy understand how it works, and I'm more of an music maker
it jjust was that I tried swapping 2 moves of ganon, his side B (when he grabs someone) with his upthrow

but it just didn;t work, when I did the side B move, ganon graps the opponent but it was just some mix of upthrow + side B, kinda hard to explain but, it was just realy annoying because it didn't work, and from that point I just stopped psa'ing, allthough the rest went fine, like his UPsmash and standard B attack...

it just takes to much time, and its too hard for me:P

[Segab]

because I prefer to keep the Brawl- PSAs.
and because standalone custom PSAs always end up unbalanced.

[ForOhFor Error]

The starting difficulty seems much too high.
It's hard to even start a decent PSA.

[Ӄit ßallarɖ]

i can't understand the Psa worth a damn. It's usually what stops me from making a good Project like Tifa. If it was more visual, and easier to understand, I'd prob use it more often, maybe even completing projects that would take more then me and someone else.

[Albafika]

I, at least, downloaded all the tutorials concerning PSA/Animating and will attempt to understand 'em on this upcoming vacations, but, from the first 5 tutorials I analized, I noticed this'll be hard for me, and I'd probably give up, which is something I don't want to do...

[Beyond]

My opinion?

PSAs takes a lot of time, there's a big learning curve when it comes to learning how to even use it, and there's more room for error. With PSA there's a lot more that can cause freezing and glitches, and it's this trial and error process that can put people off.

With Vertex and Stage hacks, you can see what you're doing; they're visual processes. PSA, you're dealing with codes, numbers, and variables. You can't see the fruits of your labor until you test it in game.

Those are my reasons for not being able to get into it actually. dX


In terms of lack of feedback for a PSA I think it really comes down to popularity of the character itself. Look at DOs Sephiroth, it's been getting so much feedback because Sephy is such a beloved character that his fans want a PSA for him done right. If I were to start a Magikarp PSA, I'd expect little to no insightful feedbac...

*had more to say but gets tired of typing*

I'll give more of my thoughts later...

[Ninka_kiwi]

Back when I first started hacking the first thing I wanted to do was get into psa hacks.
Really the only things in PSA I know how to do are make and object always visable (Like say adding wings to a character) and making the character spawn an item as well as gfx (though i don't know how to make the gfx appear in an attack not stuck to a hand >.>)

I may try to get into psas this summer as they are a lot of fun once done and it's the only hacking i really can't do decently.

Anywho my reason for people such as myself for not getting psa is that it is a long and tideus process and every tutorial iv'e seen (well back when I tried doing psas a few months ago) Were back when it first came out and people didn't know what half the stuff did making them very outdated. Hopefully someone makes some updated tutorials (esspecially some written ones)

[DarkPikachu]

I'd do a logic edit... >_>
but PSA isn't a decent logic editor...

if there was a program more like the blender logic brick editor,
(a plan of mine to work on when I have some free time)
I'd be pleased.

[DoctorFlux(Mariodk)]

and thats why i am doing moveset mainly for Mario/Sonic/Dragonball Char. (almost any of my hacks come on top in afew days)
since mario/sonic chars. is some of the most popular in the world
and dragonball is also one of the most popular animes in the world
instead make a char from a unknown Anime only JP knows afew in US and 0 in EU

[SiLeNtDo0m]

If I were to start a Magikarp PSA, I'd expect little to no insightful feedback...

I dunno, that mighty Splash attack would need to be done to perfection and that would require extensive feedback and player response.  The people would not be happy if that fin was slightly out of place for the Splash now would they

Nah I'm just kidding, but about Sephy indeed it is true.  Wolfric, Data_Drain and Apprentice of Death in particular have given DO loads of feedback.  Partially because of what you said and partially because of the fact that a character like Sephiroth is difficult to pull of in a PSA.  His moves are large and extravagant.  It's only because of the extensive feedback that these guys have given that the PSA is what it is now and not what could've been some overpowered mess.

Other characters are a tad easier.  I'll say Joe as an example again.  Balancing him was probably no where near as hard.  He's never been a particularly large (see what I did there ) or over the top character when it came to graphics.  He never had any moves that would take the space of an entire stage.  His projectiles are simple and basic and a lot of it came from simply making mid length animations.  Not too fast or too slow.  That, and he had a niche to follow as far as playstyle goes.

Which actually leads me onto another thing (I don't shut up, I know) and that's finding a playstyle to suit the character.  This is actually something I always find difficult, and is the reason why I haven't really gotten anywhere with Deadpool.  Finding a playstyle that not only suits the character, but suits Brawl too.  Taking someone like Shadow for instance.  He's a strong character, but also a very fast one too.  It wouldn't be fair or right to have him be both strong and fast in Brawl, unless he had some sort of major con which would be glaring.  So I made my Shadow fast, but not too strong.  Good combo ability and approach, and a couple of main killing moves.

But that I think is a problem with some of my movesets.  They're all at the moment "fast, well rounded characters" (for the exception of Black Knight, who is literally the exact opposite) and I personally have trouble creating variety in playstyles.  However, my next written moveset will be a tad different and interesting.

[DarkPikachu]

here's another idea:

it was mentioned that there wasn't enough "models" so to say...
that's because we don't have the tools yet to do what we need :/

once we have those... (mainly when I finish UMC)
we should start to see a few more logic edits

[SiLeNtDo0m]

here's another idea:

it was mentioned that there wasn't enough "models" so to say...
that's because we don't have the tools yet to do what we need :/

once we have those... (mainly when I finish UMC)
we should start to see a few more logic edits

True, once DAE to MDL0 conversion and stuff like that is complete then PSAers will have a much wider range of options to choose from for their movesets.