Metal Gear Solid Needs More Hack Representation!

[toastoftriumph]

Bent00 from Smashboards:
"[...] Another idea is for the taunt to be of variable length: Snake could continue smoking indefinitely until a certain button is pressed or a certain amount of time passes, at which point he tosses the cigarette. If Snake smokes for more than a second or two, he could begin to take 1% damage repeatedly until he stops, just like in MGS: tTS. If Snake's smoking is interrupted by an attack, the cigarette could either harmlessly disappear, or drop straight down, possibly hurting an advancing opponent (this would probably be cheap for a taunt - better to keep it harmless if hit). [...]"

I think this idea sounds great, if the loop/everything else is possible to code. It gives the taunt a neat flair to have it damage Snake; yet it gives a non-damaging alternative to the taunt.

[Bent 00]

Another idea is for the taunt to be of variable length: Snake could continue smoking indefinitely until a certain button is pressed or a certain amount of time passes, at which point he tosses the cigarette. If Snake smokes for more than a second or two, he could begin to take 1% damage repeatedly until he stops, just like in MGS: tTS. If Snake's smoking is interrupted by an attack, the cigarette could either harmlessly disappear, or drop straight down, possibly hurting an advancing opponent (this would probably be cheap for a taunt - better to keep it harmless if hit).

I think this idea sounds great, if the loop/everything else is possible to code. It gives the taunt a neat flair to have it damage Snake; yet it gives a non-damaging alternative to the taunt.

While it would make the taunt unique, it would not really be practical unless you're holding on to the cigarette for a reason... Such as waiting for just the right moment to flick it at a recovering opponent for a Cig KO. >.>

I would only be in favor of implementing this bit if the cigarette gets a hitbox, which probably isn't going to happen since vBrawlers want a plain, no-tricks Smoking taunt. If the cig doesn't have a hitbox, there's no advantage to holding on to the cig for any longer - it's only going to damage Snake.

Whether we give the cigarette a hitbox or not depends on a few things: Will players of Brawl+ and Project: Melee mind if we give the cig a hitbox? Or would they prefer a no-hitbox version like I'm sure the vBrawl and BB crowd will? Brawl- players would probably welcome the hitbox, if they have the cig at all - they may choose to replace it entirely with the Cloaking Device.

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

[irishladdie727]

Another idea is for the taunt to be of variable length: Snake could continue smoking indefinitely until a certain button is pressed or a certain amount of time passes, at which point he tosses the cigarette. If Snake smokes for more than a second or two, he could begin to take 1% damage repeatedly until he stops, just like in MGS: tTS. If Snake's smoking is interrupted by an attack, the cigarette could either harmlessly disappear, or drop straight down, possibly hurting an advancing opponent (this would probably be cheap for a taunt - better to keep it harmless if hit).

I think this idea sounds great, if the loop/everything else is possible to code. It gives the taunt a neat flair to have it damage Snake; yet it gives a non-damaging alternative to the taunt.

While it would make the taunt unique, it would not really be practical unless you're holding on to the cigarette for a reason... Such as waiting for just the right moment to flick it at a recovering opponent for a Cig KO. >.>

I would only be in favor of implementing this bit if the cigarette gets a hitbox, which probably isn't going to happen since vBrawlers want a plain, no-tricks Smoking taunt. If the cig doesn't have a hitbox, there's no advantage to holding on to the cig for any longer - it's only going to damage Snake.

Whether we give the cigarette a hitbox or not depends on a few things: Will players of Brawl+ and Project: Melee mind if we give the cig a hitbox? Or would they prefer a no-hitbox version like I'm sure the vBrawl and BB crowd will? Brawl- players would probably welcome the hitbox, if they have the cig at all - they may choose to replace it entirely with the Cloaking Device.

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

I think we need to stop pandering to the major mods, and do what we want to do.  That's why I suggested releasing the taunts individually so people can pick and choose.  There's no reason to confine ourselves or not go forward with ideas we like just because we don't think they'll be officially adopted.  That shouldn't be the goal.  The goal is making fun new taunts for Snake.  I play Brawl + exclusively, and I would love to have the cigarette taunt.  However, I'm not a pro.

All that said, there's no reason at all we couldn't have a balanced cigarette taunt.  It should damage Snake if held for too long, that way he can't "plan" for someone to run into him or else he'll end up hurting himself.  And the hitbox itself should be small, like the other sweetspot type moves, incur fire damage and a good amount of vertical knockback, but only do like 12% damage at most.  The best parallel I can think of right now is getting blasted by the spicy curry.

[Bent 00]

I think we need to stop pandering to the major mods, and do what we want to do.  That's why I suggested releasing the taunts individually so people can pick and choose.  There's no reason to confine ourselves or not go forward with ideas we like just because we don't think they'll be officially adopted.  That shouldn't be the goal.  The goal is making fun new taunts for Snake.  I play Brawl + exclusively, and I would love to have the cigarette taunt.  However, I'm not a pro.

I'm just trying to think ahead. We do want these taunts to see widespread use, right? Well, what better way to do that than to get the major Brawl mods to adopt them?

That said, we can just make two versions of the Smoking taunt for now: A basic, fixed-length version with no hitbox (pretty much what we have now)...

and a gimmick version, which can have a mobile hitbox, be of variable length, and damage Snake if he smokes for too long.

I have another suggestion for the packs' setup, tell me what you all think:

Basic Pack (suitable for all versions of Brawl) (nearly complete)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Smoking (basic, fixed-length version with no hitbox)
Down Taunt: Box (Snake's original up taunt)

Plus Pack (suitable for all versions except Vanilla Brawl and Balanced Brawl)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Smoking+ (mobile hitbox, fire damage ≤ 3%, variable length, damages Snake if he smokes too long) *
Down Taunt: Mobile Box (Snake can move around under the box, variable length) *

Stealth Pack (suitable for Brawl-, maybe Brawl+ and Project: Melee)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Cloaking Device (perfect invisibility except for player tag, lost if Snake shields, ledgegrabs, or is hit)
Down Taunt: Stealth Box (move around and silently drop C4 or grenades under box, variable length) *

* Yet to be confirmed as possible

All that said, there's no reason at all we couldn't have a balanced cigarette taunt.  It should damage Snake if held for too long, that way he can't "plan" for someone to run into him or else he'll end up hurting himself.  And the hitbox itself should be small, like the other sweetspot type moves, incur fire damage and a good amount of vertical knockback, but only do like 12% damage at most.  The best parallel I can think of right now is getting blasted by the spicy curry.

I agree with all that except for the damage bit. 12% damage is way too much - the box only does 2%, and Luigi's down taunt only does 1%. We need to keep it in line with those, since it is a taunt we're making here. I'm thinking 3% fire damage.

Of course, there's still this obstacle in the way of the Smoking+ taunt:

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

Without a visible cigarette texture, we're stuck with the basic Smoking taunt.

[irishladdie727]

I agree with all that except for the damage bit. 12% damage is way too much - the box only does 2%, and Luigi's down taunt only does 1%. We need to keep it in line with those, since it is a taunt we're making here. I'm thinking 3% fire damage.

That's why I said at most.  I'm still pushing for a rest attack like thing, but that would be pretty broken.  And by rest attack like thing, I mean the original Brawl rest attack that never actually KO'd.  Just that same sort of trajectory and damage, but fiery.

Of course, there's still this obstacle in the way of the Smoking+ taunt:

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

Without a visible cigarette texture, we're stuck with the basic Smoking taunt.

I'm loving the idea to use one of the food items.  That would be non-controversial, easy as hell to edit, and won't take anything away that will be missed.  But again, it all comes down to what will work...

[Bent 00]

That's why I said at most.  I'm still pushing for a rest attack like thing, but that would be pretty broken.  And by rest attack like thing, I mean the original Brawl rest attack that never actually KO'd.  Just that same sort of trajectory and damage, but fiery.

You mean like this?

(fast forward to 0:20)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydsWExYu4I" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydsWExYu4I</a>

You want that strong of an effect on Snake's cigarette hitbox? >_>

The only taunt has that currently has that kind of knockback is Luigi's down taunt, and that's only if he hits an opponent hanging on a ledge with it.

Hmm, maybe Snake's taunt could be similar? Only minor downward or horizontal knockback normally, unless it hits an opponent hanging off a ledge - then it could spike like Luigi's down taunt. That's the only way I would approve giving the cig that much power. Otherwise it would definitely be broken.

I'm loving the idea to use one of the food items.  That would be non-controversial, easy as hell to edit, and won't take anything away that will be missed.  But again, it all comes down to what will work...

Putting the Cracker Launcher over the Smokeball caused it to load perfectly, but it doesn't respond to my size changes.

Replacing the food items is not a good idea. The game generates the food item randomly.

[JOEYSX5]

Hey, can somone do me a favor? I wanna make a MGS4 Big Boss trophy over the default Naked Snake trophy. Could somone vertex off all his gear/weapons?

Here's his BrawlBox preview:


You can see what I want gone. Here's a download link to those who want to help or would love to test it in game:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d89bts9xsz3jgyt

[irishladdie727]

You mean like this?

(fast forward to 0:20)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydsWExYu4I" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydsWExYu4I</a>

You want that strong of an effect on Snake's cigarette hitbox? >_>

My memory was faulty.  It should be about 1/4 that strong if that.  You were right to judge...

[Bent 00]

Also, what do you think of giving the Smoking taunt a hitbox where the cigarette hits the ground? It could work just like Luigi's down taunt, except with fire:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhvzzpRdJo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhvzzpRdJo</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQR_8X2Q5AM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQR_8X2Q5AM</a>

...This would probably be overkill, since Snake already has the box for taunt kills, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

[JOEYSX5]

Is there anyone who wants to help vertex Old Big Boss trophy?

[Olimario1892]

I would but I don't have 3ds max.

[Bent 00]

Hey irishladdie727, have you started on your Squares Camo texture yet?

[irishladdie727]

Hey irishladdie727, have you started on your Squares Camo texture yet?

No...  I've got so much going on IRL right now stuff like that's kind of getting dropped.  However I got PCSX2, and now I'm trying to download the subsistence ISO, it's just been two weeks and it's barely halfway done...  It'll be a while.

[Eternal Yoshi]

I still have the whole ISO on my PC that I dumped a while back.

Scarily enough, my bro wanted Big Boss over Ganondorf awhile ago.

[Bent 00]

Hey irishladdie727, have you started on your Squares Camo texture yet?

No...  I've got so much going on IRL right now stuff like that's kind of getting dropped.  However I got PCSX2, and now I'm trying to download the subsistence ISO, it's just been two weeks and it's barely halfway done...  It'll be a while.

So have you dropped the Squares Camo permanently, or will you attempt it at a later time? If permanently, I'll ask someone else or try to figure out how to do it myself. ~.~

Hey Eternal Yoshi, what's happening with the Smoking taunt? The ball is in your court, so to speak.