Haloedhero's Projects: Finally on the Project: M Team

[GabbaGhoul]

I swear with the most recent version of Scott you can't repeat the N Air over and over.

ya 0.97 N air can cancel into itself.
There was a discussion about it, something, something pages back.
It was made that way purposely

[_Data_Drain_]

If you're saying the version I used is outdated. Scott's on version 0.97, and that's the one I used there and I did repeat it.

If you mean that for a next update he shouldn't do it, then I'd agree. XD

When I briefly tried out this move set, I recall being able to spam neutral air as well... And yeah, it does seem like he has too much priority in the air.

And before anyone asks, yes, it was the latest version.

[HaloedHero]

You certainly can't "spam" neutral air. In fact, you have to be pretty high in the air for it to cancel into itself at all. It can cancel into itself, but it can cancel into other moves much sooner.

It will continue to have the ability to cancel into itself, since it's not super practical and can only be used as a way to fake out your opponent when coming from high up. However, I'll probably shrink the hitbox to make it less safe.

[_Data_Drain_]

You certainly can't "spam" neutral air. In fact, you have to be pretty high in the air for it to cancel into itself at all. It can cancel into itself, but it can cancel into other moves much sooner.

It will continue to have the ability to cancel into itself, since it's not super practical and can only be used as a way to fake out your opponent when coming from high up. However, I'll probably shrink the hitbox to make it less safe.

You seem to have missed part of Wolfric's point, forward, and back air have too much priority, almost Meta Knight like, you can't seem to cancel those moves out with another move, his just cut right through yours...

And also, yeah, you can kinda spam neutral air, as seen in that video.

[HaloedHero]

... I didn't miss anyone's point. I just didn't comment on it until I have a chance to look at it more closely...

The video was using an outdated version whether the poster said so or not. I know, because when he cancels nair into itself, you can see a quick flash of Scott's body standing upright. That was an animation "glitch" that I fixed before .97 came out.

I'm not saying anybody is trying to spread misinformation, but I believe some people may be mistaken.

[Albafika]

... I didn't miss anyone's point. I just didn't comment on it until I have a chance to look at it more closely...

The video was using an outdated version whether the poster said so or not. I know, because when he cancels nair into itself, you can see a quick flash of Scott's body standing upright. That was an animation "glitch" that I fixed before .97 came out.

I'm not saying anybody is trying to spread misinformation, but I believe some people may be mistaken.

You might wanna re-check the .rar, then, 'cause I'm sure I used the last version (0.97), and just as SDo0m posted, I re-downloaded the files and re-checked..

Either way, splendid job on this PSA, I never got to try it 'til 2 weeks ago ('Til I started my tourney thread), and it's been really fun to play with.

[_Data_Drain_]

... I didn't miss anyone's point. I just didn't comment on it until I have a chance to look at it more closely...

The video was using an outdated version whether the poster said so or not. I know, because when he cancels nair into itself, you can see a quick flash of Scott's body standing upright. That was an animation "glitch" that I fixed before .97 came out.

I'm not saying anybody is trying to spread misinformation, but I believe some people may be mistaken.

Um... I'm pretty sure he downloaded, and is using the latest version... Maybe you didn't update the BV entry?

[HaloedHero]

Hmmm... interesting. I will look into this further. I'm glad you guys like this PSA enough to care about these small details.

However, a video of someone trashing a CPU =/= proof that fair and bair have too much priority. The video was riddled with instances where the CPU could easily have shield grabbed. I'm not dismissing the idea that they have too much priority, but I think a bigger problem is his low landing lag. It allows for just jumping on someone's shield with an aerial and then jumping and doing another before they can retaliate.

[Albafika]

Hmmm... interesting. I will look into this further. I'm glad you guys like this PSA enough to care about these small details.

However, a video of someone trashing a CPU =/= proof that fair and bair have too much priority. The video was riddled with instances where the CPU could easily have shield grabbed. I'm not dismissing the idea that they have too much priority, but I think a bigger problem is his low landing lag. It allows for just jumping on someone's shield with an aerial and then jumping and doing another before they can retaliate.

Oh, I didn't make the video for this purpose. I made the video to show the people participating in my tourney what was coming... I just felt I could post it here as well, just to show the Fair/Bair. I wasn't thinking about Nair 'til these guys brought it up. Don't mistaken my intentions, please. D:

[HaloedHero]

Haha, OK, that's cool. I figured you were just posting it, but I think some people took it as proof of priority problems.

[Albafika]

Haha, OK, that's cool. I figured you were just posting it, but I think some people took it as proof of priority problems.

Plus, if I may add, the AI on Sonic was stupid, really stupid. That moveset and AI didn't work at all, unlike the rest, which gave a good fight.

Either way, I also tested Fair/Bair with RL friends, but I could go more in-depht concerning this if you'd like. I really regret not being a playtester before the formal release, this PSA is really outstanding, so I feel kinda bad for bringing balancing issues this late.

[HaloedHero]

That's OK. That's why I haven't called it version 1.0 yet. Someday, maybe it will get there.

Go ahead, tell me in depth about fair/bair. I still think that the main problem is the low landing lag. They're too hard to punish. The priority is supposed to be kind of good, because he has so little range on everything except neutral special, but good priority plus hard to punish is a little absurd for aerials. (I mean, I seriously looked at his landing lag numbers recently, and I had a distinct "the &%$# was I thinking?" moment.)

But yeah, I'd like to hear the specific concerns.

[Albafika]

That's OK. That's why I haven't called it version 1.0 yet. Someday, maybe it will get there.

Go ahead, tell me in depth about fair/bair. I still think that the main problem is the low landing lag. They're too hard to punish. The priority is supposed to be kind of good, because he has so little range on everything except neutral special, but good priority plus hard to punish is a little absurd for aerials. (I mean, I seriously looked at his landing lag numbers recently, and I had a distinct "the &%$# was I thinking?" moment.)

But yeah, I'd like to hear the specific concerns.

I'd blame it on them being "sex kicks". these attacks require decent priority over normal ones (I'm talking from a gamer experience, not sure how it works coding wise...) As for the in-depth, maybe this weekend when friends come around. I'll take a few minutes to test both their priorities and see what's up.

As for low landing lag... Hmm, sounds interesting. But I think it's more than that, Bair specially, its killing power is too good, and if its priority is what I believe it is (Nearly unstoppable), judging by it, and the fast that attacks comes out, it'd need further check.

[HaloedHero]

The sex kick thing is a pretty easy fix, and I pretty much agree that it's part of the problem.

[HaloedHero]

Sorry about the double post, but I put together an experimental version for further testing:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?w1xv54hp01br7rh

Changes:
F air now hits for far fewer frames, but the sweetspot is very slightly easier to land.
B air now hits for fewer frames, but more than F air.
Neutral air hitbox is smaller.
Small animation adjustments.
Small hitbox adjustments to d smash and up smash.
Down air now has hitlag frames.

I also figured out what was going on with neutral air. The way it was done so close together at times in the video was by canceling it with a double jump and then doing N air again. This will stay as is, but with a smaller hitbox, N air is less safe overall.