AGFan's Multi-PSA Thread - Good Bye People!

[_Data_Drain_]

I'm assuming you won't make Mewtwo exactly like he was in Melee?  You'll need to buff him since in Melee he wasn't very good (fun as hell to play, but a bad character).  Not to mention because of the fact that Brawl doesn't have the omnidirectional air dash, he can't wavedash (which was one of the best tools he had in Melee).  

I'm not saying "new moves" since this is Melee Mewtwo, I'm just saying make his current moves better.

Well... But this is Brawl, he may not need buffs. Think about it, if he was made exactly as he was in Melee... But with Brawl physics. He'd actually fit in pretty well, the hurt box not being on his tail is already a huge buff. Since he was easy to combo in Melee.

And, he has good spacing tools, and a good projectile... Great recovery, and mind game options, and a few other things. At the most, maybe buff his weight, since... I always found it dumb in Melee how he was light.

So... Pretty much, I want AGFan to make a vBrawl friendly version of Mewtwo first. (All he would need to do, is make the air dodge normal, and give him some landing lag.) Then make versions that fit other physics better, such as Brawl+, and in the future, P:M.

[kururu]

the a neutral air is beatiful and the down smash is the only move i use to destroy giga bowser and the other character in melee  ^-^  :mewtwo:

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Well... But this is Brawl, he may not need buffs. Think about it, if he was made exactly as he was in Melee... But with Brawl physics. He'd actually fit in pretty well, the hurt box not being on his tail is already a huge buff. Since he was easy to combo in Melee.

And, he has good spacing tools, and a good projectile... Great recovery, and mind game options, and a few other things. At the most, maybe buff his weight, since... I always found it dumb in Melee how he was light.

So... Pretty much, I want AGFan to make a vBrawl friendly version of Mewtwo first. (All he would need to do, is make the air dodge normal, and give him some landing lag.) Then make versions that fit other physics better, such as Brawl+, and in the future, P:M.

But he has the death combination of stats i.e. he's tall, slow, floaty and light, as well as having a generally bad approach.  This is the exact combination of flaws that Zelda also has and well....look how she turned out despite being "buffed" in numerous areas.

As for his projectile being good here, that's because the animation is probably incomplete and needs reworking.  It comes out way too fast when compared side to side with the Melee counterpart.  It comes out almost as fast as Falco's air lasers but with more hitstun when realistically it should rapid fire at roughly the same speed as Lucario's N-B rapid fires.

So I agree on the weight change and the lack of a hurtbox on his tail is useful (though strange), but he needs more.  His throws were amazing in Melee, but they'd need to be "Brawlified".  For example, his D Throw should become a Falco like chaingrab imo (maybe not THAT good, but his throws still should be one of his better aspects).  And most importantly, he just needs an approach option.  Something that allows him to get in.

Again, this is all going along the consensus of "This will end up as a direct Melee Mewtwo".

[AGFanProduction]

I'm assuming you won't make Mewtwo exactly like he was in Melee?  You'll need to buff him since in Melee he wasn't very good (fun as hell to play, but a bad character).  Not to mention because of the fact that Brawl doesn't have the omnidirectional air dash, he can't wavedash (which was one of the best tools he had in Melee). 

I'm not saying "new moves" since this is Melee Mewtwo, I'm just saying make his current moves better.

well, I'm trying to make it as close as possible to Melee, I think that the omnidirectional air dash and the wavedash will be omitted in this version.  :-\



@Carnage:
Thanks for the ideas I'll chose from there to add to the Stadium PSA  :-X



@Data_Drain:
Well... the Air-Dodge is in a normal state right now and it has his landing lag, I would make that version first but I don't use vBrawl, I do use the Normal Brawl (I updated x) ), Riivolution and Brawl+.
when I release this version (I advanced a lot on it yesterday) you guys can test it out and give the unnecessary feedback (If ya want to) to improve it.

Yesterday I added to Melee N-A all the hitboxes it was on the Animation I just shown. I do still have to edit the knockback, rage and position of the last hit, also add his wave GFX from Melee, I mean needs a little tweaking.
that's why I don't have any pic of it, otherwise I re-made again Melee F-Air:

AttackAirF | Forward Air

Total: 39
Hit: 6-8
Auto-Cancel: <1 35>
Landlag: 25
L-Cancelled: 13



but as same as N-A, needs tweaking because both legs mess at some time of the animation and it doesn't looks good as to leave it like that, gonna fix that today when I get a chance.
and I ported and Improved some other animations starting from the Wait1 to the Jump F & B animations (same order listed in the Lucario Motion) fixed the tail movements so it looks more natural and some hand rigging glitches.

This goes next:

AttackAirB | Back Air

Total: 31
Hit: 12-15
Auto-Cancel: <3 30>
Landlag: 28
L-Cancelled: 14

[Roo]

AGF this is amazing progress! You are actually recreating meetwo PERFECTLY in Brawl! I would totally start the project again if I didn't have town to worry about. (And if I actually had a working computer...>.>)

I salute you sir!

[AGFanProduction]

AGF this is amazing progress! You are actually recreating meetwo PERFECTLY in Brawl! I would totally start the project again if I didn't have town to worry about. (And if I actually had a working computer...>.>)

I salute you sir!

Thank you my friend, long time no talk to you xD
Hope everything is going good for you and yeah this is a big progress I have done for now :P

Thanks for your support Roo :)

[Carnage]

But he has the death combination of stats i.e. he's tall, slow, floaty and light, as well as having a generally bad approach.  This is the exact combination of flaws that Zelda also has and well....look how she turned out despite being "buffed" in numerous areas.

As for his projectile being good here, that's because the animation is probably incomplete and needs reworking.  It comes out way too fast when compared side to side with the Melee counterpart.  It comes out almost as fast as Falco's air lasers but with more hitstun when realistically it should rapid fire at roughly the same speed as Lucario's N-B rapid fires.

So I agree on the weight change and the lack of a hurtbox on his tail is useful (though strange), but he needs more.  His throws were amazing in Melee, but they'd need to be "Brawlified".  For example, his D Throw should become a Falco like chaingrab imo (maybe not THAT good, but his throws still should be one of his better aspects).  And most importantly, he just needs an approach option.  Something that allows him to get in.

Again, this is all going along the consensus of "This will end up as a direct Melee Mewtwo".

but doesnt lucario has those same  stats i mean hes no tall but he is normal size  but hes light , floaty and the speed isnt the greates and he can handle itself and if mewtwo has melee frames and etc he might be good to brawl since the way he was floaty in melee is like the normal way characters fall in melee almost and  i know he was slow to start the attacks in melee but brawl is much slower than melee so he will look almost normal here  and just wondering i see you got some interest in mewtwo are you a mewtwo fan also :P? what about your kid buu xD

[SonicBrawler]

very amazing. cant wait to use

[_Data_Drain_]

But he has the death combination of stats i.e. he's tall, slow, floaty and light, as well as having a generally bad approach.  This is the exact combination of flaws that Zelda also has and well....look how she turned out despite being "buffed" in numerous areas.

I'd say being heavier would greatly improve him by itself.

As for his projectile being good here, that's because the animation is probably incomplete and needs reworking. It comes out way too fast when compared side to side with the Melee counterpart. It comes out almost as fast as Falco's air lasers but with more hitstun when realistically it should rapid fire at roughly the same speed as Lucario's N-B rapid fires.

I wasn't talking about he PSA's version, I was talking about the one in Melee itself, you know... Pretty much Lucario's. Although I think another buff would be the fact that it's not possible to make the original Melee Shadow Balls. Meaning they don't zig zag uselessly. And maybe... For difference between Lucario's and Mewtwo's... Mewtwo could fire his slower, but have little end lag, there for being able to follow his projectile... This would make a great mix up option.

So I agree on the weight change and the lack of a hurtbox on his tail is useful (though strange), but he needs more. His throws were amazing in Melee, but they'd need to be "Brawlified". For example, his D Throw should become a Falco like chaingrab imo (maybe not THAT good, but his throws still should be one of his better aspects). And most importantly, he just needs an approach option. Something that allows him to get in.

Again, this is all going along the consensus of "This will end up as a direct Melee Mewtwo".

Should he really have a chain grab though? Maybe a light one like Peach's, that works best against fast fallers. Though I'm generally against the idea of a chain grab being the focus on a character... If he were to be buffed, then it should be in other aspects, not making a simplistic chain grab.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

but doesnt lucario has those same  stats i mean hes no tall but he is normal size  but hes light , floaty and the speed isnt the greates and he can handle itself and if mewtwo has melee frames and etc he might be good to brawl since the way he was floaty in melee is like the normal way characters fall in melee almost and  i know he was slow to start the attacks in melee but brawl is much slower than melee so he will look almost normal here  and just wondering i see you got some interest in mewtwo are you a mewtwo fan also :P? what about your kid buu xD

Lucario isn't light, he's middleweight
He's not slow, he's mid speed
He's not tall, he's mid height
He's floaty though, and that's what keeps him from being a higher tier character

Mewtwo's stats aren't like Lucario's at all.  Lucario is pretty well balanced statistically.  They're much more like Zelda's.  Not to mention, Lucario has a decent approach.  But in general, being floaty is pretty much never a good thing.  In Brawl or Melee.

As for my interest in Mewtwo, I've always been interested in him.  Ever since the first Pokemon games and movie.  He was basically my main in Melee too.  However, that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a very strong character.  Just a very fun one XD

I&#039;d say being heavier would greatly improve him by itself.

Heavier and faster falling.  Not really fast, but not extremely floaty.

I wasn&#039;t talking about he PSA&#039;s version, I was talking about the one in Melee itself, you know... Pretty much Lucario&#039;s. Although I think another buff would be the fact that it&#039;s not possible to make the original Melee Shadow Balls. Meaning they don&#039;t zig zag uselessly. And maybe... For difference between Lucario&#039;s and Mewtwo&#039;s... Mewtwo could fire his slower, but have little end lag, there for being able to follow his projectile... This would make a great mix up option.

I very much like the idea of it firing slower.  Sounds pretty awesome.  Would allow for a really good approach option, thus relieving a key flaw and assisting his awesome mind-games even more XD

Should he really have a chain grab though? Maybe a light one like Peach&#039;s, that works best against fast fallers. Though I&#039;m generally against the idea of a chain grab being the focus on a character... If he were to be buffed, then it should be in other aspects, not making a simplistic chain grab.

The other thing I was thinking of was a tech chase, however they're pretty rare in Brawl since they're hard to do.  I believe on Sonic really has a decent tech chase with his D Throw because of his fast running speed.  Maybe it shouldn't be as mindless as Falco's D Throw or Marth's F Throw, but something that would link nicely into D Throw at low %s and short hopped aerials at higher %s

[_Data_Drain_]

Heavier and faster falling.  Not really fast, but not extremely floaty.

Hm... How about a compromise? He can keep his floatiness, but, his fast fall could actually be a good bit faster?

I very much like the idea of it firing slower. Sounds pretty awesome. Would allow for a really good approach option, thus relieving a key flaw and assisting his awesome mind-games even more XD

Yeah, I actually suggested that to KJP for his Mewtwo... I don't remember if he went with it or not, but yeah, it would be helpful for him. Slow start, but hardly (if any) end lag. He could not only follow his own projectile, but be able to jump over it... Allowing for some cross-ups.

The other thing I was thinking of was a tech chase, however they're pretty rare in Brawl since they're hard to do. I believe on Sonic really has a decent tech chase with his D Throw because of his fast running speed. Maybe it shouldn't be as mindless as Falco's D Throw or Marth's F Throw, but something that would link nicely into D Throw at low %s and short hopped aerials at higher %s

Tech chasing... Hm... That sounds more like something Mewtwo would do. And yeah, maybe at low percents. His down throw could lead into tilts, and at high percents short hopped aerials as you said.

[SonicBrawler]

>.>

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:srs:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Hm... How about a compromise? He can keep his floatiness, but, his fast fall could actually be a good bit faster?
Yeah, I actually suggested that to KJP for his Mewtwo... I don't remember if he went with it or not, but yeah, it would be helpful for him. Slow start, but hardly (if any) end lag. He could not only follow his own projectile, but be able to jump over it... Allowing for some cross-ups.
Tech chasing... Hm... That sounds more like something Mewtwo would do. And yeah, maybe at low percents. His down throw could lead into tilts, and at high percents short hopped aerials as you said.

I agree wholly with all this.  Thus we have come to an awesome compromise.  *High fives Jiro* XD

[AGFanProduction]

>.>
:srs:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Thanks for the current work video preview my friend :af2:


Enjoy people :)

[SonicBrawler]

no prob! :D