Fire Emblem's Lucina PSA - WELCOMING AID!

[PallaPal]

I made that big list a few pages back of some things I'd like to see changed (mostly fixing animations transitions), but as far as balancing goes I'd really like to see the aerial side special/down special be able to grab ledge.

Lucina's vertical recovery may be far above average, but her horizontal recovery could be improved. Oh, and less end-lag on down tilt.

Right, I saw that earlier in the thread now. Hmm, so just let her snap onto the ledge with those then? I think I can do that

And the horizontal recovery... she goes a pretty good distance already with the Side B[Aerial]. In fact, I ended up nerfing her Down B in the air at some point because her horzontal recovery was too good! She originally could practically fly back to the stage at any distance even on Dracula's Castle in Project M. I'll consider it though, haha.

I think the end-lag on the Down tilt is already low isn't it? Actually, wait you mean the Project M version right? I think I did that just because her meteor is more effective in Project M than vBrawl. Not to mention it can be L-cancelled. I could probably increase the length of the animation, but lower the landing lag so at least it can't be used as often in the air. Would that work?

Also, would your suggestions be for both versions though or just one Lucina?

You know what I did to vBrawl Lucina's first jab? (set the KB angle down 5 degrees, turned the base knockback up slightly, and turned the knockback growth down slightly.) That needs to be an official thing, but the knockback angle needs to be down at least another 5 degrees.

On your vBrawl version edit you did, yes? I agree that should be official. Thank you for your help in those extra edits by the way!

And I've answered it before: yes

I see. Any suggestions for going about it then?

[Large Leader]

Lucina's vertical recovery may be far above average, but her horizontal recovery could be improved. Oh, and less end-lag on down tilt.

There should be tradeoffs for recovery. Her vertical recovery is way too good, she shouldn't have better horizontal recovery imo. Especially when you can move left and right with her up Special (it's still using Float Points from Dolphin slash).

[Friesnchip]

I think the end-lag on the Down tilt is already low isn't it? Actually, wait you mean the Project M version right? I think I did that just because her meteor is more effective in Project M than vBrawl. Not to mention it can be L-cancelled. I could probably increase the length of the animation, but lower the landing lag so at least it can't be used as often in the air. Would that work?

Are you referring to her down air or down tilt? I'm talking about the grounded kick.

Also, would your suggestions be for both versions though or just one Lucina?

Well, Project: M mainly, but I am taking Brawl into consideration with my recommendations.

There should be tradeoffs for recovery. Her vertical recovery is way too good, she shouldn't have better horizontal recovery imo. Especially when you can move left and right with her up Special (it's still using Float Points from Dolphin slash).

If Lucina is getting the ability to wall jump, I would assume her vertical recovery would be nerfed a bit to compensate. In that case, an improved horizontal recovery (at least the ability to grab ledges) would make more sense.

[PallaPal]

Are you referring to her down air or down tilt? I'm talking about the grounded kick.

I noticed now. I realized too late though xp. In any case yeah, I can add less lag on the Down tilt.

[Large Leader]

If Lucina is getting the ability to wall jump, I would assume her vertical recovery would be nerfed a bit to compensate. In that case, an improved horizontal recovery (at least the ability to grab ledges) would make more sense.

She still doesn't need great or even good horizontal recovery. Her vertical recovery along with her floatiness (and literal float points) allow her to have really good horizontal recovery.

Just because it isn't a shield breaker-ish dash, doesn't mean it's not good.

[JamietheAuraUser]

Lucina's vertical recovery may be far above average, but her horizontal recovery could be improved.

I have the opposite problem with Lucina: Her horizontal recovery is amazing between Ignis, Pass, and Galeforce (I think that's the official name of her Up B?), but her vertical recovery is edge-hog bait due to the slight "pop" at the end of Galeforce and her insane falling speed.

[Friesnchip]

I have the opposite problem with Lucina: Her horizontal recovery is amazing between Ignis, Pass, and Galeforce (I think that's the official name of her Up B?), but her vertical recovery is edge-hog bait due to the slight "pop" at the end of Galeforce and her insane falling speed.

That 'pop' is what makes her recovery so great on sloped edges and transferring to the next move. There could be a difference as to how the move functions between Brawl and P:M though, with the change in speed and physics. With that in mind, Lucina's falling speed is pretty average in P:M (even less than Marth/Roy I would say), not even comparable to fast-fallers like Fox and Falco.

[Jackos]

Her vertical recovery is good, but her horizontal recovery is godly (at least from what I've played on PM), she literally cannot die from being thrown far from the stage unless she reaches a blast edge, she basically flies all over the place with Ignis.
Any idea on why the Aether shield glitch happens?

[JamietheAuraUser]

Lucina falls very fast for a vBrawl character, and that "pop" on her Up B can easily lead to her being edge-hogged. Its overall distance is good, but her ability to recover diagonally upwards is arguably worse than Marth's, between her increased falling speed and the lack of a hitbox at the end of her Up B. Marth midair jump + Dancing Blade + Dolphin Slash > Lucina midair jump + Ignis + Galeforce.

[Friesnchip]

Its overall distance is good, but her ability to recover diagonally upwards is arguably worse than Marth's, between her increased falling speed and the lack of a hitbox at the end of her Up B.

True, but that 'pop' cuts out a lot of possible end-lag to respond to any edge hogging. Still, I can see where Marth's hitbox would be superior in some cases.

Regarding the aerial side special, should it degrade in distance after each use? Like by the third consecutive use it hardly goes anywhere? Or I suppose it could be limited to just a one time attack per recovery. Along with the ability to ledge grab with side special and eventually wall jump, I'd say that'd be more balanced in theory.

[JamietheAuraUser]

I find if I go for an aerial after Up B, she falls so fast that by the time she completes the aerial, she's already below the ledge.

Side Special could be limited either to a single use per jump (so you can use it once in midair and again after a midair jump, potentially better for combos, but might still be OP for recovery), or so it only provides distance the first time it's used and you have to land to refresh it.

Edit: I prefer your first idea over my second idea. Another possible alternative: On the second use, she no longer retains aerial momentum after the attack and it sends her into Special Fall.

[Friesnchip]

I find if I go for an aerial after Up B, she falls so fast that by the time she completes the aerial, she's already below the ledge.

The fall speed must be a vBrawl thing, but you could also try down special to bypass ledge attacks.

Side Special could be limited either to a single use per jump (so you can use it once in midair and again after a midair jump, potentially better for combos, but might still be OP for recovery), or so it only provides distance the first time it's used and you have to land to refresh it.

Distance degradation in the air per usage (which landing refreshes of course) sounds more balanced than two full uses after each jump, especially considering the latter would probably be refreshed when wall jumping. Plus, it would add more strategy to aerial combos. The way I view it, the first use would be full distance, the second about half, and any after does just a tiny bit. Does this sound reasonable?

Edit: Ah, I just saw your edit. Hmm, I would need to be able to test your idea in-game to see how it felt during a match, but I think that'd work pretty well too.

[JamietheAuraUser]

Ledge attacks? Nonono, I mean the opponent doesn't actually have to time their ledge grab. For Marth, the opponent actually has to time the ledge grab so the invincibility frames will be in place when I Dolphin Slash. For Lucina, they can just grab the ledge at any old time, knowing that even if I force them off with an aerial I still plummet to my death due to falling speed.

As for Side Special, that definitely works out quite well for air combo fun. Even if vBrawl, Ignis > USmash is a true combo, and pretty fun to use. (But not as fun as Astra > Galeforce or Aether > DSmash.) I wonder if Ignis > Galeforce > Aerial is a legit combo? I haven't yet tried it.

Off-topic: I just realized that edge hogging is probably still a thing in SSB4 if you have a spike DAir, since the invincibility frames on ledge grab seem to be shorter the higher your damage percentage. Result: Mario is trying to recover and is at over 100% damage. Marth grabs the ledge before Mario reaches it. Mario grabs the ledge out from under Marth, and Marth immediately DAirs him for a KO.

[SJS]

Not to sound rude, but does it matter? How often are you looking at the characters shadow? Especially during a match. Also that's a modeling thing. not a PSA thing. We didn't make the Models, SJS and Albafika did.

Actually, Vert made the model. Albafika rigged it and I did the textures.

[Nao-chan]

Oh, whoops. Sorry about the misinformation and confusion.
Post Merge: June 22, 2014, 11:46:07 PM

The new ones are really quiet, yeah. You'll have to turn the volume way up on them using BrawlBox, from what I've found. To about 150 for the regular attack clips, and 120 or so for actual lines of dialogue. And around 140 for the FS quote.

A little confused by this. How do you adjust the sounds volume exactly? I know it was a while ago but I'd like to have her audible at least.