Brawlbox Resources & History

[thegameexplorer]

Better DAE support?
<shot>

Will the tristripper interfere with Mario Kart Wii?

No?

[DarkPikachu]

for those who wish to know what the tri-stripper will do, see the spoiler:

5 triangles

current brawlbox:
90 000F (15 facepoints)

after tristripper:
98 0007 (7 facepoints (max reduction))

NOTE: I can't garuntee that result every time for 5 triangles due to how Triangle Strips work

here's the demonstration:
7 facepoints, 5 triangles:
-1
-12
-123
-234
-345
-45
-5

search up triangle strips on google-images for a graphical demonstration.

[Keromonkey]

BrawlBox is an essential tool. Thank you for all your hard work, Blackjax. (Just wanted to say that cuz your avatar looks burnt out, lol).

[Eternal Yoshi]

for those who wish to know what the tri-stripper will do, see the spoiler:

5 triangles

current brawlbox:
90 000F (15 facepoints)

after tristripper:
98 0007 (7 facepoints (max reduction))

NOTE: I can't garuntee that result every time for 5 triangles due to how Triangle Strips work

here's the demonstration:
7 facepoints, 5 triangles:
-1
-12
-123
-234
-345
-45
-5

search up triangle strips on google-images for a graphical demonstration.

Just to add it should also fix the split UVs which reduces the texture calls to what's necessary.

[BlackJax96]

Just to add it should also fix the split UVs which reduces the texture calls to what's necessary.

That's not a problem with the MDL0. How many times am I going to have to say this?
It was a problem with the DAE exporter, and it's fixed in v0.68d. So stop bringing it up.

BrawlBox is an essential tool. Thank you for all your hard work, Blackjax. (Just wanted to say that cuz your avatar looks burnt out, lol).

Thanks

[DarkPikachu]

That's not a problem with the MDL0. How many times am I going to have to say this?
It was a problem with the DAE exporter, and it's fixed in v0.68d. So stop bringing it up.

Thanks

I don't think he's talking about DAE BJ... :/


@Eternal: this just lowers the amount of total facepoints in the object,
and also reduces the calls made to verts, normals, colors, UVs, NBTs etc...

the biggest performance increase will be less calls to the XF matrix stack which will greatly reduce transformation calculations.

[BlackJax96]

I don't think he's talking about DAE BJ... :/


@Eternal: this just lowers the amount of total facepoints in the object,
and also reduces the calls made to verts, normals, colors, UVs, NBTs etc...

the biggest performance increase will be less calls to the XF matrix stack which will greatly reduce transformation calculations.

I know he's not. He's talking about something that Vaanrose said, but UVs are always split in the MDL0. The "problem" that was thought to be there isn't the problem. There's no way to "join" them, that's just not how they're stored.

There's a UV index for every facepoint, and there's 3 facepoints for every triangle. So if there's only triangle primitives, and you have, say, a cube, then there's SIX calls for the same UV point.

The DAE exporter used to not remap facepoints, so you'd get 6 calls of same UV instead of just one. But now the exporter remaps everything so individual points only appear once, and 3ds Max reads them as joined, not split.

Anyway, the tristripper will reduce the amount of facepoint calls, which is what's making the game lag. The lag isn't caused by "split UVs", it's caused by a [censored]ing huge amount of facepoints in each object.

I'm using a cube right now as a test for the tristripper (12 vertices), and it uses 36 facepoints. A facepoint is the equivalent of a vertex, so there's 36 vertices for just a cube. That's nuts, and that's why "high poly" models lag.

Oh and the tristripper is coming along well.

[DarkPikachu]

BJ... everything you've just put there was confusing as crap XDD
no offence meant or anything

but yea, a cube has 8 vertices, not 12...
shoot... I would know 9_9
lol

anyways
if a cube is nothing but triangles that would be 6 facepoints for each side of the cube...
36 facepoints
and yes, in "True" modelling terms a facepoint is called a vertex
but that changes vertices to positions among other confusing terms...


also
you can use the direct implamentation to put the vert right in the facepoint, instead of indexing to it...

the .RAW triangle format stores all data just like this...
though I havn't actually seen a Nintendo example yet...
(probably because this method is considered inefficient)
 ^ performance is increased as you don't have to take the extra step of indexing, but file size is also increased due to duplicate data...

EDIT:
I'm afraid I'm not comprehending what you mean by "split UVs" in the MDL0

how I understand that is a vertex (position) being shared among 2 seperate UVs...

     UV
    /
vert
    \
     UV

[Segtendo]

Tristripper's comin along nicely?
Can't wait for some higher-quality hacks.

[DSX8]

haha hope it does work w/o any errors soon... gives me a chance to redo some high-poly models w/o doing ProOptimizer at first, let BB do it first then export to 3ds max and lower it a bit more from there, highly doubt i'd need to do that 2nd part tho :p

[BlackJax96]

Oh yeah a cube does only have 8 vertices. Then why does this cube I'm testing have 12? It's not because a side isn't attached to the others, because BB remaps vertices by influence and position.

Anyway yeah it sounds confusing because it is and I'd rather not explain primitives all in-depth and whatnot so you guys just gotta take my word for stuff. The lag has nothing do with UVs and that's it.


And no, you're still going to want to optimize models even with the tristripper. There'll just be a bit more lenience on the vertex count.

[Velen]

You know that Transform All Button that never worked? The problem with that might be a simple logic error that requires debugging to catch.

Just...Something I experienced with my programming class I took during the Spring semester...A lot.

[BlackJax96]

You know that Transform All Button that never worked? The problem with that might be a simple logic error that requires debugging to catch.

Just...Something I experienced with my programming class I took during the Spring semester...A lot.

I am glad that you learned that; however, you would've been better off not mentioning it to someone who's already been programming for a few years now as it was very derp-worthy. Did you think I've been sifting around code manually looking for bugs that need to be fixed this whole time? XD

[Velen]

I am glad that you learned that; however, you would've been better off not mentioning it to someone who's already been programming for a few years now as it was very derp-worthy. Did you think I've been sifting around code manually looking for bugs that need to be fixed this whole time? XD

No. What I said wasn't derp-worthy because I'm not an unaware of your skill as you think. I was just making mention of the fact the problem with that function probably has a lot a do with a logic error somewhere in the copy and paste algorithm.

[BlackJax96]

No. What I said wasn't derp-worthy because I'm not an unaware of your skill as you think. I was just making mention of the fact the problem with that function probably has a lot a do with a logic error somewhere in the copy and paste algorithm.

Yeah well you know how some foods spoil if you leave them sitting around for too long? It turns out that this error can be remedied by putting them in a cold device called a refrigerator. This can prolong the life of said foods.