SDo0m's Dark Void: Deadpool Release (pg 512)! Major thanks to Mephisto!

[Total Voters: 47]

[DoctorFlux(Mariodk)]

i think he means the shadow is still abit overpowered

[ToddL]

My thoughts while playing:


Complaints:

Aerial chaos spear moves you downwards in a horribly awkward way.  My guess is that this is to avoid stalling, but this solution is completely unacceptable, in my opinion.  This is the only “real” problem with the moveset.

Next biggest problem (and only other major one) is that Nair's graphic is waaaaay too flashy--it looks like something out of an over powered PSA.  Aside from the over the top graphics, the move looks and feels quite good.

(Now on to the smaller details:)

The counter's sound FX is a little lack luster compared to its graphics (I guess the plan is to fix this with a Shadow voice clip, though?)

The sound FX for the counter stance makes it very unclear what the move is.  Perhaps there is another soundfx that would make it more clear that the move is a counter (or at least a sound FX that is less common than charging a smash attack)?

Black tornado seems a little "meh", now.

FThrow looks like he's creating the dark energy ball from his spider web wrist pouch.

Upthrows animation looks a little awkward (it's apparent that it used to transition into Sonic’s old animation), but it feels solid and looks cool, otherwise.

The first charging flash in Chaos spear comes noticeably before the charge actually upgrades--this would feel more appropriate if it were better syncronized.  The second charging flash seems slightly awkward because the charge doesn't actually change at all when it happens (not sure what to do about this, though).  Overall, the move is a noticeably solid upgrade.

Something about Utilt seems off--it reminds me of animations I used to see on alloy model swaps.  Perhaps the movements and transitions aren't smooth enough?  It's not really a big deal, but seeing as it's the ONLY move in the moveset that still has this problem, I thought it was worth mentioning.


Commendations:

Chaos Rift feels much better now, it looks great (especially the aerial version), and the black graphic is fantastic.  The aerial version feels very good, as well.

New Bair looks and feels great.

Fair is a good replacement--looks and feels nice

Netraul combo feels much better.  I think it looks much better, as well, but I'm not actually sure if the animation changed.  For some reason, it’s no longer obvious that the up kicks are from Sonic, where as I felt like it was painfully obvious previously.

DTilt looks much nicer and I love how it lawn mower spikes on the back hitbox only.  Very fun

Chaos emerald taunt looks much nicer.

Having sideB be the same in the air as it is on the ground makes the moveset seem much more natural in Brawl and really helps the character fit in.

Taking out the teleports in the dodging is a huge improvement.

UpB feels much nicer, gets better distance like it should, and looks much, much nicer without the flashing green.

I still think Chaos Blast has ridiculously unoriginal and boring design (their fault, not yours), but you made it look very nice.



Overall, this is a big improvement!  Very, nice work!
Chaos Spears awkward aerial movements and Nair's over the top graphics will need to be fixed before I leave this PSA on my system, but if you don't ever fix them I may just break down and give him a spot in my roster, anyway.  This is a really nice looking and, more importantly, nice feeling PSA, now.
Again, very nice work.

Anyways, I really like your Shadow PSA SDOOM, but it's come to the point where there's just as many Shadow PSA's as there are textures...
Okay so I'm exaggerating a little bit, but in all seriousness, it's not the most impressive of your work or capabilities, sorry.

I completely disagree.  This is one of the most polished feeling and nicest looking PSAs in existence and serves as a considerably impressive monument to his capabilities.  Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who dislikes Shadow as a character and thinks that there have only been a handful of PSAs released that are even worth downloading.
Additionally, the reason that all the Shadow textures are annoying isn't because of their numbers--it's because of how unnoticeable the differences between them, are.  I understand what you are trying to say, but this PSA is an obviously marked improvement over all the other Shadow PSAs that have been released, so comparing it to overload of textures and vertexes isn't at all fair.

i think he means the shadow is still abit overpowered

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think he understands this and is just indirectly asking for more detailed feedback of the problems (if they do exist).  The fact of the matter is that the CPU is susceptible to a number of exploits that cannot be effectively used against human players.  Due to this, simply being able to beat CPU's means very little without knowing more about how the match was played.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Thank you for all your feedback toddtj ^^

1) About the Chaos Spear in the air, that movement is actually an accident and I literally have no idea why that happens.  In PSA, there is no horizontal momentum involved in the move yet he still moves sideways downwards.  So this is an accident that I'm desperately trying to fix.

2) Tweaked the N Air.  The graphics look no where near as huge.  It's still quite noticable, but not all over the place like before.

3) I'll fix up those SFX for you.  What to exactly, I don't know, but I'll change it to something XD

4) One of the reasons the Black Tornado could be better is partially because of the fact that there should be a tornado graphic, but it's really hard to see.  I specifically want it black, but I'm working on making it a bit more visible.  That'll probably enhance the presentation of the move.

5) Nah he's just meant to make it look as though it's coming out his hand.  I think I'll make the graphic come out as soon as he pulls his arm back.

6) Yeah this was more of a concept animation if anything.  I thought it came out ok, but I can easily change it up so it's more original (though it'll take a bit of time).

7) I noticed those graphics too, but I've fixed them now ^^

It may be because the move is too "bouncy".  Though I deliberately wanted it to be that way.  I remember spending a while on making that animation though.  I can't really be asked to change it @.@


And thank you very much for your positive output too

[Albafika]

He summed up technically all the points I was going to mention. ;_; With the exception of this one:

Bair: Could its hitbox be made more perfect matched to his feets, I mean, it can hit Kirby with a Shorthop + Bair (Instantly), it'd be more balanced if you'd need to time it as with Sonic's, but just a little so that you need to wait a minimal time when shorthopping to hit A and connect the hit. It's just my though, everything else I agree with. =)

Amazing job on this one, sDo0m.

[ToddL]

Glad to help

1) About the Chaos Spear in the air, that movement is actually an accident and I literally have no idea why that happens.  In PSA, there is no horizontal momentum involved in the move yet he still moves sideways downwards.  So this is an accident that I'm desperately trying to fix.

Sorry to hear that   Part of being at the top of your field is not having many people to ask for help from, so imagine being stuck on something like this is quite frustrating.  I'm sure you'll come up with a solution in time.  In the mean time I'll get off my high horse and play around the glitch, since I now know it's not a design choice like I presumed.

4) One of the reasons the Black Tornado could be better is partially because of the fact that there should be a tornado graphic, but it's really hard to see.  I specifically want it black, but I'm working on making it a bit more visible.  That'll probably enhance the presentation of the move.

I haven't actually seen the Black Tornado move in it's source game, so I don't have a mental image of what to expect, but that sounds really cool.  I remember that when I first read the moveset information for this PSA (before there was a video) I expected there to be a tornado graphic in the move.  I was disappointed when there wasn't one, but the move looks pretty cool even without it so I didn't give it much more thought.  I'm excited to see what your completed concept for the move looks like

5) Nah he's just meant to make it look as though it's coming out his hand.  I think I'll make the graphic come out as soon as he pulls his arm back.

I think I may have sacrificed clarity for pithiness when I mentioned this move.  What I meant to convey is that the graphic seems to come out of his wrist instead of his palm, where I imagine it is supposed to be.  I do agree that having it appear earlier in the animation may also improve the presentation, although I didn't think of this until you mentioned it.

6) Yeah this was more of a concept animation if anything.  I thought it came out ok, but I can easily change it up so it's more original (though it'll take a bit of time).

It definitely came out alright.  If/when you do fix it up that'll be great, but don't worry about rushing it.


In regards to the Utilt animation, my guess is that it's because it moves slightly too fast.  If you get the chance I do recommend you check into this seeing as if the problem is really this simple the tweak should be (relatively) easy to implement.  I hope it didn't seem rude when I compared your animation to old model swap animations from the dark ages; it didn't occur to me at the time that the comparison made it appear as though I was suggesting the general animation or attack was of poor quality (I actually found it to be one of the most outstanding moves in the previous version).  I should have taken the time to think it through more and give you an educated guess instead of an ambiguous comparison.  No offense taken, I hope.

[Strange Matter]

Just a small nitpick, but would it be possible to make the shadow graphics on his forward and down smashes a little bit bigger, more like how they were in the V1 moveset? The graphics themselves look nicer than the old ones, but it looks kind of awkward to me, probably because I'm so used to the old moveset. I understand why you nerfed the actual attacks themselves and I'm not really talking about expanding the hitboxes or anything like that, just making it a little bit flashier I guess.

[ToddL]

Is it possible to make an effect like the stop watch item, except have all opponents slowed down to a complete stop?  I ask because although you did a good job making it look cool, Chaos Blast isn't really much fun to use due to the lazy design work the Sonic team did when conceiving it.  In my opinion, completely stopping time and then allowing you to whale on people manually could be a lot of fun, if it's possible.

[Sanitys_Theif]

New Shadow Moveset? Cool, I like the new moves, but here's the review

Basically, he's like the first Roy moveset ever made and the Zero moveset for Link, in short, he's fun to play, but he's got a terrible metagame and winning with him just isn't fun


AAA Combo: I don't know what you did here but you changed the timing, the animation looks the same, but I used to be able to do AA, crouch cancel, and side-tilt/up-tilt/grab/pretty much anything but now all you can do it start the attack over, whatever you did, I'd change it back

Up-tilt: The animation is a little clunky, and the range is kind of poop, I would just use Sonic's up-tilt animation and maybe add fire

Overview: Tilts = good

Sidesmash: This move is pretty useless now, I know it was overpowered in the last moveset(I didn't say anything since you said you were done with Shadow at the time) but the start-up time makes it unsafe and it's reward in damage isn't great, so I don't use it, you should speed it up and have the damage and knockback be similar to Sheik's side-smash, otherwise it's a pointless move as it's too easily choreographed, I understand about making it weaker which is fine, but making it slower too just makes it absolute poop

Upsmash: You can't kill with this move, not a problem, it's fine, the real problem is he has no reliable killing smash attack, His down-smash is just a better version of his sidesmash, they both have the same function, slow start-up time and powerful but Sidesmash is weaker thus making it useless, catching an opponent with a downsmash is very situational and doesn't happen often if at all, and Upsmash doesn't kill, so for ground game, he's pretty bad, I would make sidesmash come out faster and have it around Sheik's sidesmash in strength so he can have at least 1 somewhat reliable killing smash attack

Overview: Smashes = poor

N-Air: This move is completely unsafe except for 1 situation, it's unsafe because as soon as you land, your opponent can retaliate with a quick attack making it more or less a suicide, it's only good situation is if you can get the attack to finish in the air, but even then your opponent can DI easy, land and attack when you land so it's really just not good to use, maybe as an edgeguard sometimes but it's priority isn't high

F-Air: Love this move, it's cool, but it has no knockback growth, you can't kill with it, not that you have to but continue reading as to why it's a problem

Backair: His only killing aerial attack, but only on the second hit, and seeing as an opponent can DI easy out of the first one, it's unreliable

Overview: Air Game = terrible
None of his aerial attacks can kill even slightly reliably, up-air is a juggle move, but not a good one as it sends opponents too high, F-Air does not kill until around 250% or so, Down-air suffers a similar problem as the N-air with landing before it finishes, N-air is completely unsafe, Basically with Shadow, his only reliable method of killing an opponent is to down throw run and back-air and hope to God that your opponent forgets to DI

Neutral B: Grounded, an opponent can take one hit, not move, and throw an attack at you before another hit comes out, in the air it's ok as a defense for someone doing a jump attack, honestly I'd just change this to chaos blast and have it function like Ike's neutral B with the smart bomb explosion graphic, at least then he'd have an edgeuard tool, N-B grounded does edgeuard cheaply in the fact that it reverses direction AND pushes the opponent away, if Shadow had an overpowered move, it would be this

Side B: Awesome, but in the air, could you have it angle downward? And the pause make's it an annoying slow way to recover

DownB: Awesome, but no real killing power, Down B in the air is pretty slow

UpB: His recovery is somehow a bit worse, could you make this so you can choose a direction to help somewhat

Overall you can't kill with Shadow, every time I face an opponent, I can't kill them until they get to the 200%-250% range unless I luckily manage to pull off a downsmash but lvl 9 computers and my friends aren't dumb enough to fall into that too often, and his combo game has gone down a bit

Also you took out his chaos control but left his item spawn ?

I love the win animations and taunts btw, he needs some improvement, I understand about nerfing him from the last moveset, but you took it a bit too far

[SiLeNtDo0m]

I didn't remove Chaos Control...though I made a mistake with it so it was really really hard to use.  I've fixed that now.

And from my experience the N Air is anything but useless.  Infact in this release it was his best aerial due to its huge range and the fact that it covers his entire body.  Not to mention its low end lag.  You're literally the only one who has said that it isn't useful.

And I'm definitely NOT changing the Neutral B to Chaos Blast.  So many other Shadow movesets have done it already and it's already the Final Smash.

I'll increase his kill potential a bit, but I'd rather have this PSA slightly underpowered and fun rather than stupidly oped like before.  I honestly don't want to get carried away with buffing him as much as I did before. Most of Shadow's moves aren't designed for killing in this moveset.

[Eternal Yoshi]

Just balance him towards the C tier, to use the Brawl tier list as a quick and clear example and you're good.

As a reminder: The C-Tier list.
 

Just sandwhich Shadow to be better than some but inferior to others that you see here and you are golden.

[DTST]

Just to give the heads up I'll be posting the updated shadow model here later

[Kaye Cruiser]

Sorry son, but I somewhat agree with Sanity about his strength. This new moveset is fun and all but...It's a little weak. It's kinda like Eldiran's Zero before he hit 1.4. Sure his moves are cool, but what good does using them do if you can't kill with them? It's kind of the point of the game.

But on the other hand...He's not really THAT weak. It's just that his playstyle is so different from the first one which matched Shadow's aggressiveness before. I think the main issue is that for people who played with the first moveset faithfully and got used to it, this new one makes them feel like they can't do as much as before. I'm used to the old moveset, but I usually use P:M Sonic since he's the ONLY P:M character that works in other versions of Brawl. vBrawl included. :3

Onto the moves though.

His Smashes are okay, but D-Smash feels kinda pointless due to it's decreased range. N-Air...Yeah, it's pretty useless. Sure it's big, but it hardly does anything to the enemy aside from small damage and barely does any knockback, if it does at all. That, or you land before you can finish the whole thing. I'd suggest making it like Mewtwo's N-Air from Melee. I'd said Lucas', but I feel he's just overpowered all around. >_>' (lolLucashate)

F-Air is cool. It's something you have to follow up with a couple of times, like Sonic's, and thus chase the enemy off the screen in midair. I can get with that. LOVE B-Air. Not seeing much of a difference with U-Air.

THEN there's D-Air...Honestly, I never liked D-Air since the first moveset. Using on the ground, sure it's possible, but it doesn't help much. In the however, it's almost impossible to land right, if at all. I'd actually suggest taking Hagure's route and using Shadow Rocket. you know, where he spins, then shoots down? It's basically where Sonic's D-Air comes from. Except give it a spike.

Now specials...I don't know what Sanity is talking about on Up-B. It's MUCH more useful now, as Shadow goes higher and he feels lighter. Love the new Chaos Spear. Down-B, I can hardly use right yet, but that's just cause of me. I'll get used to it. All in all, it's a decent move. Th new tornado is good by the way. Neutral-B...

Ha ha~, Neutral-B. ¦D *has SO much fun with this one* Trapping opponents with it on the ground is fun, but try using it on someone who is trying to recover. Just jump right above them and keep using it as they try to get back up. Fun trolling. Fun times. ¦3

Tilts. F-Tilt feels a bit too weak now, but other than that, they're fine.

The new throws are SO good. Nice work. :3

And you made him faster. Thanks for that. I always felt the other Shadow was a little too slow.

All around, he is pretty good. Some of the changes are good, others could've stayed as they were or not been changed as drastically, but it'll all take getting used to I guess. Plus, you said he isn't finished anyways, so it's not like it's stuck this way.

Looking forward to what you have in store next. :3

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Interesting stuff Wave, thanks ^^

About the D Air, I think I may just change it completely to Hagure's.  Maybe alter-up the hitboxes a tad and change up the graphics and speed a bit to make it feel a bit different.  You're not the only person to criticise the D Air

I'll increase the range slightly of the F Smash and D Smash (I actually didn't decrease the range of either of them XD But because of their reduced power the low range is noticable) as well as increase the power of the F Smash just a tad.  I'll also change the N Air so it deals more hits at 1% each so it can build damage faster and also give it a landing lag hitbox so that it will always push enemies outwards.

As for the F Tilt, I didn't actually change it at all.  Infact all I did to it was tweak the hitbox flags XD  There were no damage or knockback tweaks at all.

Just balance him towards the C tier, to use the Brawl tier list as a quick and clear example and you're good.

As a reminder: The C-Tier list.
 

Just sandwhich Shadow to be better than some but inferior to others that you see here and you are golden.

ROB is C Tier?  Daymn he must've gone down from before...

Anyways, thanks for this EY.  I'll try and strive for this kind of thing when balancing my movesets from now on.  For some it's fairly easy (for Zero, for example, I'd just need to go along a similar approach as Pit i.e. good projectiles, decent range, good damage building abilities and speed but generally poor kill potential due to stale move negation screwing up his killing moves).  Whereas for others it will be more difficult (for example, I specifically want Black Knight to be painfully slow, but extremely powerful.  I'd probably need to give him a couple of fast moves that he can rely on as well as some heavy armour frames on the start-ups of his smashes).

 

[DTST]

just a update:

this one shows he no longer is super shadow when he does his FS




i would've changed the emerald to green because the green is what he always has but i couldnt find the textures

im also planning port him over DK so tell me if i should yet or not

plus i used the updated version of boots shadow model

[SiLeNtDo0m]

just a update:

this one shows he no longer is super shadow when he does his FS




i would've changed the emerald to green because the green is what he always has but i couldnt find the textures

im also planning port him over DK so tell me if i should yet or not

plus i used the updated version of boots shadow model

Oh dat's smexy :3