SDo0m's Dark Void: Deadpool Release (pg 512)! Major thanks to Mephisto!

[Total Voters: 47]

[ItalianStallion]

Preview pics for the peepz who are cannot partake in the pleasure of playtesting:

Neutral B: Shocking Ball

Ready the electrical pink ball of energy


Then throw it



Side B: Mystic Combination

Curl into a ball


Smack your foes around while in ball form


Then kick your opponent up by sticking your leg in the ground (still waiting for the leg graphic as you can see XD)



Up B: Buu Rocket

Ready up


Then zip of in a flash of pink XD



Down B: Instant Transmission

Teleport in a direction at high speeds



D Taunt: Sleep

A very long lasting taunt (lasts for about 5 seconds).  If you can get the whole way through without being hit though, you heal 20%

Holy [censored]!

And you used my stage as well =D!

I are very happy. I can't wait to try this out when it's released.

[Sirkura]

The first thing I noticed after playing for a while was that if he is still having upward momentum from being attacked, he actually goes REALLY high when doing the down B. I discovered this on accident because I had meant to go diagonally downard with the attack, but my new controller kinda sucks so it went diagonally upward and he was upthere for quite a while.

Second thing worth noting is that if you happen to do your UP-B on the ground and not actually LEAVE the ground, you can't do it again until you do leave the ground. (Jump, be thrown, etc) Not an actual problem, jjust a bit of a small glitch I suppose?

Third thing I figured I should note is that while the combo system is good, it lacks importance as the opponents health gets higher. They begin to get knocked to far back for his short reach to do much about it.

One problem in particular I had was with his Mystic Combination. It reach (while I understand its supposed to be short for balancing reasons) is a bit TOO short. You almost literally have to be standing on top of them for it to connect and while yes, the smashes link to the specials, the down smash is the best one for the combo, however, due to the nature of the down smash (similar to Sonic's) its about a 30% chance you'll find yourself close enough to your opponent to land it.

Later I found out that you can continually spam Mystic Combination in the air... this is too good of a stall as he doesn't drop. Perhaps limiting it to one use in the air. (Don't put him in the fall state please because the range on the Mystic Combination is not anything I'd use for recovery any time soon.)

His forward smash, good for an end of a combo, however, because it CAN cancel into other moves, I'd think it would be better if it could cancel in between both hits. The reason I say this is because the second kick gives to much knockback for it to effectively combo into much of anything. Whats worse is that because at the moment, because Smashes only combo into specials, his forward smash is a horrible lead into his Side-B (Mystical Combination) comboing into his down b is more often then not uselss because it doesn't deal damage and the combo potential is mostly reliant on low HP levels.

His Up-B move feels a tad bit stiff. The start up is not to bad but it feels really stiff.

No offense, but I notice that his AAA is a bit similar to Shadow's.

As far as weight is concerned, he feels heavy. He falls pretty fast and its not what I pictured when I think of Kid Buu, but thats my opinion, as far as it works systematically, he falls to fast for his moves to effectively combo into it. IMO.

Overall, I'd say this was ready for release. Orginizing playtesters (While I do thank you for the opprotunity) feels unneeded in my opinion. What I listed above are minor problems that don't effect gameplay that much and can be gotten around. The only REAL problem I see are the short distance for his mistic combination and the problem with his up b not being able to be used again on the ground unless you leave the ground another way as well as the mystic conbination spam in the air for stalling. Thoes are the only problems really and only the mystic combination spam is actually important.

Overall I say a wonderful job well done and Lucario has officially been replaced.


---------------------------

I was at an anime/game convention all weekend and the last time I looked at this thread was 5 pages ago. Needless to say, I didn't read all of that and just skipped here.

I only just read that I was supposed to mainly give feedback on aesthetics but I think my critique still holds weight.


Edit: another couple of things I forgot to mention, he keeps his forward momentum when throwing his pink ball when doing it from the air. As in if you were moving in the air, while using the B move, and before he throws it, he hits the ground, you can make his body move in a direction.


Edit 2: One more thing... I notice the dl came with a FitLucarioFinal. But the final is no different from Lucario's. Mistake perhaps?

just started messing with it and mostly what i found has been said. the mystic ball i think would be better with a bit more range. also i noticed that attack is really spammable i understand using it to combo but while i was playing my friend it was hard to get up off the ground after i got hit a few times having it spammed one right after the other. maybe you can add some ending lag to it if it connects? also agree on the the stalling in the air. final smashes like peach's wind up useless lol
-
overall its a really balanced moveset along with the vbrawl characters, seems like it's easy to play yet has a lot of depth to the movement and has more to actually do with the skill of the player, being able to combo into a lot of other moves allows u to give it a more personal flare to the playstyle of the character.

[dpgthirteen]

Ok, after many play test. I am ready to give feedback.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-combo: Absolutely fine, don't touch it. Damage, and animation are perfectly fine and it cant be spammed.
Side-Tilt:Less damage defiantly, and is extremely spam-able. You can keep going at it for a long as time and then finish your enemy off with a Side smash. For damage maybe 5%?
Up-Tilt: Nothing wrong, maybe 8% damage instead, but its not urgent.
Down-Tilt: Perfect, dont touch it. The transition is perfect and it cant be spammed.
B: Way to much damage for a attack that barely has a charge and shoots out with in a second. Either increase the charge time or lower the damage. Maybe different levels too, but the maximum being what you have right now.
Side-B: VERY spam-able! Needs to have end lag, or fix it so you cant hit people on the ground.
Down-B: Very efficient, nice animation. No problem.
Up-B: Eh, never liked the Fox series up-b. Maybe you should go for more of a Lucario up-b, Even though he is dashing through out the series( and games) they still moved freely at top speeds.
Air-N: Very nice, maybe 7% damage instead?
Air-B: Its a good move, but seems to bland for Kid Buu. Maybe if the first kick connects you can make it that he spins his legs like a helicopter, landing multiple kicks.
Air-F:Same as Back, just seems to bland for Buu. Good move, just bland for the character. Less damage wouldn't hurt.
Air-U: Not bad, nothing that needs to be replaced, but nothing amazing.
Air-D: LOVE the attack, but to much damage and is way to easy to land. Like KJP you should put a limit the move can be used. 3 being minimum and 7 being maximum. 7% damage would be a better choice.
D-taunt: Good, love the animation and is very hard to land. Perfect job.
S-Taunt: I am sure your working on this
U-Taunt: splendid job, looks amazingly smooth, and captures his character good.
Over all: I don't think you needed us play testers. This can easily be passed off as a V.1. But I am happy I was chosen, and want to thank you for choosing me. And the wait animation looks a lot better now. Love the on-hit-system makes him feel very original and definitely forces you to keep playing him

[SmashClash]

To add to my feedback:Side-B is spammable. Can you make it so he can't use it for a certain amount of time and if you press it while you're not allowed to Kid Buu will just show a "shaking his head"/"no" pose.

Tell me if you like that idea.

[Dark Aura]

A lot of what I was going to say has been said, but I'll be darned if that keeps me from giving you some feedback.

Before getting into specifics, I guess the best place to start would be how balanced the Moveset is overall. At first, I felt like he was over powered: but if you really think about it, there are two factors that keep it from from being that way:
1. A steep learning curve: I've never had so much fun learning the ins and outs of a character's combo potential, and even after practicing all afternoon, I still feel like there's some things left to be discovered. While his combos can be relentless, it's all about strategy and choosing which one works best based on the damage of your opponet. It involves a LOT of thought and quick fingers, which is something players have to consider while fighting, making a some-what instinct based fighting game a lot more deep.
2. His knock back: As I expected, his powerful combos are evened out thanks to the fact that he has little knock-back potential, which is a good thing and is to be expected. On average, I couldn't really KO someone until around 150%, which certainly keeps things interesting.

So in regards to him being balanced, I feel you've done a decent job, but I still think a bit of balance tweaking is needed, mostly in regards to the damage he deals. Still, pleasantly surprised. Anyways, time to get a bit more specific.

Ground tilts/Smashes: these pretty much define the Moveset. The ability to go from one attack to the next in an instant is an absolute blast, and once learned, can be executed the best when grounded. The side tilt is perfect for this, since it pulls people toward you, and is very helpful... Maybe a bit too helpful. Some lag between the attack would help here, and probably a damage decrease, considering this is probably the best move to start a combo with. The up tilt is fine, and the down tilt could likely use a small percentage decrease. As for smashes, the knock back is perfect. From what I gathered, it's pretty hard to start a Combo with a smash (Excluding the down smash) Whih should stay that way. No real need anyway, since when a foe's percentage gets high enough, you can't really start one after smashing them. Maybe a damage decrease, but it doesn't seem necessary.

Air attacks: I kind of have to laugh at the fact that for a show who's battles seem to mostly take place in the air, it's very hard to get a combo going for his Arial attacks. All in all, it's for balance purposes, and with the help of his teleportaion, you can still get a ball rolling. Nothing much to say here, really.

Specials: NOW we have something to talk about. It's been said before, and I'll say it again: you need to nerf the spammabiliy of his side B. I won't elaborate since it's been said by about everyone, but yeah. As for his neutral B, either more lag for the attack, or less damage. The fact that you still fall when using it is good, though. Down B is fine, though it takes some getting use to considering it's a teleportation move that we're mostly use to being the up-B. Adds some variety though. As for the over B, the range is balanced, an the damage percentage is fine. Perhaps it can do without the lag though.

Goes without saying that the taunts are awesome, so I'll just leave it at that. Perhaps not would be a good time to implement the Vegeta dance. XD

Well, that's my two cents. Again, I'm no PSA expert, but helpful or not, I enjoyed this PSA, and know you'll do great things with it. Lots of fun to use.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

@dpgthirteen

Actually, you'll find that less damage would hurt.  A LOT.  Take his aerials for example.  None except fir his D Air do above average damage, all are weaker represntations of other moves (e.g. Falco's B Air but weaker, Mario's U Air but with more startup, lower damage, more endlag and much more landing lag) and none of them have particulaly great priority.  Furthermore, all are weaker than P:M Lucario's (this actually applies to almost every move he has, however he's not quite as punishable in some areas as P:M Lucario)

However, here is the list of changes I will make:

- F Tilt will deal 7%
- U Tilt will be able to hit behind him. Deals 7% on the later hitbox.
- F Smash connects better and has slightly increased knockback so it's actually a worthwhile kill move now
- U Smash lowered to 12%
- N Air I'm deciding to keep.  I may make it a little better, but I'm not sure how.  Even the best characters however have their share of not useful moves (e.g in Melee, Fox and Falco's F Airs were terrible)
- F Air animation change
- B Air will be the pinwheel kick instead.  An interesting property of this is that it reverses the direction he's facing.
- D Air will shoot down a bit faster, but have a little more startup and do 12%
- Neutral B will take one second to charge instead of 2/3 of a second, do 10%, have reduced knockback and have more endlag.
- Side B has more startup and much more endlag.  In the air, he drops down when he does it so it can no longer be used for indefinite horizontal recovery.  He also goes forward a bit more, deals higher knockback on the ground version, goes faster and has removed time manipulation (I got it to work without it).  Finally, it won't be able to connect on shields, leaving it punishable.
- U Air has tweaked graphics

New Stuff:
- New grabs.  This is the one large potentially balance changing area.  His grabs will be long ranged and have similar properties to Yoshi's grab.  His pivot grab will be amazing, his other two grabs will be rather poor.
- F Throw: He swings the foes round his head the lobs them forward. 9%
- B Throw: He teleports to the other side of the foe then hits them with a cheap shot on the back. 8%
- U Throw: He throws the foe up the proceeds to hit them with a series of fast upward kicks in mid air. 8%
- D Throw: He repeatedly slams to foes on the ground back and forth, finally ending with a strong slam.  Think Super Skrull's Elastic Slam move from MvC3.  10%
- New Side Taunt and new Secret Taunt
- New Final Smash - Planet Burst

[DSX8]

@dpgthirteen

Actually, you'll find that less damage would hurt.  A LOT.  Take his aerials for example.  None except fir his D Air do above average damage, all are weaker represntations of other moves (e.g. Falco's B Air but weaker, Mario's U Air but with more startup, lower damage, more endlag and much more landing lag) and none of them have particulaly great priority.  Furthermore, all are weaker than P:M Lucario's (this actually applies to almost every move he has, however he's not quite as punishable in some areas as P:M Lucario)

However, here is the list of changes I will make:

- F Tilt will deal 7%
- U Tilt will be able to hit behind him. Deals 7% on the later hitbox.
- F Smash connects better and has slightly increased knockback so it's actually a worthwhile kill move now
- U Smash lowered to 12%
- N Air I'm deciding to keep.  I may make it a little better, but I'm not sure how.  Even the best characters however have their share of not useful moves (e.g in Melee, Fox and Falco's F Airs were terrible)
- F Air animation change
- B Air will be the pinwheel kick instead.  An interesting property of this is that it reverses the direction he's facing.
- D Air will shoot down a bit faster, but have a little more startup and do 12%
- Neutral B will take one second to charge instead of 2/3 of a second, do 10%, have reduced knockback and have more endlag.
- Side B has more startup and much more endlag.  In the air, he drops down when he does it so it can no longer be used for indefinite horizontal recovery.  He also goes forward a bit more, deals higher knockback on the ground version, goes faster and has removed time manipulation (I got it to work without it).  Finally, it won't be able to connect on shields, leaving it punishable.
- U Air has tweaked graphics

New Stuff:
- New grabs.  This is the one large potentially balance changing area.  His grabs will be long ranged and have similar properties to Yoshi's grab.  His pivot grab will be amazing, his other two grabs will be rather poor.
- F Throw: He swings the foes round his head the lobs them forward. 9%
- B Throw: He teleports to the other side of the foe then hits them with a cheap shot on the back. 8%
- U Throw: He throws the foe up the proceeds to hit them with a series of fast upward kicks in mid air. 8%
- D Throw: He repeatedly slams to foes on the ground back and forth, finally ending with a strong slam.  Think Super Skrull's Elastic Slam move from MvC3.  10%
- New Side Taunt and new Secret Taunt
- New Final Smash - Planet Burst

me like what i see in the new changes =3

[Dark Aura]

All that should help in keeping things balanced for sure, especially the side-B changes. Very nice, can't wait to see them in action.

[Kagemaru]

[.quote author=SiLeNtDo0m link=topic=15324.msg699400#msg699400 date=1317619850]
@Kagemaru

Both the Side B problems have been fixed.  As for the Up B I literally have no idea why that happens.  All I did was remove the ability to turn, give it a hitbox, give it graphics and change the animations.  I did nothing to how it's structured.  Also, it's meant to feel a bit stiff because it only goes straight.  It feels about as stiff as Fox's Up B.

Thank you for that awesome wall of feedback.  The purpose of playtesters was so that I could find the common problems affecting the balance of the PSA.

@ Velen
 
He does.....Although you can tell from the picture at all.  You can't tell from the vid either because Youtube runs at 30 FPS rather than 60
[/quote]

I'd say out feels more like wolf's then fox's.
 
 Btw I dont have access to a wii for the time being or decent internet for that matter so this is my last bit of f eedback I can give on the subject as I am limited to only my phones internet.

Kid Buu felt like kid buu. I was happy to see it turn out  the way it did. It took some getting used to, but just like spider man it is one of my favorites. I like the neutral air a but it feels a bit short, stiff lacking... Something. I recognize it from the game but in tenkaichi it was a midle combo move. This version seems like more of a single hit deal. I think it would do well to replace a couple of his jabs with that. aesthetically it would suit Buu as well.  Although it does make a nice psudo meteor move its range in that regard is a  bit low in my opinion. Similar to fox's but lacking a bit of range.

The air kicks, I liked. Fox is my number 2 so I found myself using the back one   more then the front for knock back even though I believe the front one is better. Buu is fast like I expect, which is good, he is similar to fox in many ways which for me its also a plus because lucario is originally mid speed.

I LOVE his forward a tap. Wonderful for comboing. The reach sure to his small size is fair and its pull isnt overpowered so good job there.

Aside from the above, everything else was stated in my first post. I didn't read anything after this quote because I'm my phone. Sorry if I missed anything important.

Side questions for sdoom :  are you going to tune up spider man anytime soon? His counter is a bit slow and his time effect lasts to long. I believe the last time it was talked about, you said something about limiting it to only its dodge  an putting in the option to dodge back or forward. Besides that the only other complaints is that the forward and down smashes seem a bit choopy. No actual system complaints besides the time thing.   Spidy is still perma replacing sheik who is my number 1 main. I'm just curious.

oh, and I was wondering if you were gonna do a cloud update. The current one is fine... Don't get me wrong.  but some time has passed and I bet you could make a better one. Still keeping him over ike regardless.

V.joe is perma on my roster. It's pretty perfect as far as psa and animations go. no complaints there.


feel free to reply our answer my questions comments and concerns here but could you please pm them to me as well because this thread makes new pages every day an its hard to keep up with on my phone.




In light of the replies since I started typing this... I like the their ideas. And whats a kid buu  without planet burst?

His damage is fine to me... He did well in 4 player
Matches as well. Hopefully I'll have my own wii soon so I can get back to playing.

[StarWaffle]

Wow, very nice feedback o.o  

After several days of testing, I think I'm done =D
Well I couldn't find anymore glitches... so on to balancing!

This goes fairs well with most of the already existing cast. So I would say he is balanced. >.>
but to make him further fit in, here are my thoughts.

AAA:  its pretty much balanced but i think it should do 1-2% less damage and more knockback. just to discourage/punish people from being lame and only pressing A.

F-tilt:  Everything is fine here. great for continuing combos! the only thing I'd change is maybe the arm animation. more of a licking animation than a poking animation. if ya know what i mean.

Utilt: I usualy keep this move fresh in case i get frustrated when my enemy is at 200% its a decent kill move at this point. If ya want to use it more for combos I'd lower the knowckback  and add more range

Dtilt: Love this move. nothing needs changing imo

DashAttack: I use this attack all the time when i get to caught up in combos just to give myself time to think.  its great though

Nair:  Oh my favorite move, the animation for it is quite amazing.  love the knockback and damage. fits perfectly

Fair: Dunno why but i rarely use this move.  Its a great move though. don't see anything needing to be changed

Uair: I think it could use a little less knockback

Bair: This one should have more knockback!  bair is always sexy to have as a killing move

Dair: Either the startup or ending lag should be increased, but i guess startup to promote combos.  And I know its been done time and time again but i think it should stick people into the ground D=  so buu can get a better shot at killing.  or maybe only the down b version?  unless the down b version is dair >.>  not too sure how PSAs work

Fsmash: less knowback on the first kick more on the second. i think damage is fine

Usmash: love this move!  less knockback. maybe more horizontal knockback than vertical.

Dsmash: love this move as well!  so great if you actualy pull of a combo with it. feels amazing!

Neutral Spcl:  Either the startup or ending lag should be increased. this is a sexy way to kill especialy canceld out of an aerial.  knowback and damage are fine imo. you can really only use it when you are on the ground because well... you drop so fast when you start it. I think that makes it predictable/avoidable enough to be considered balanced.

Foward Spcl: fix the endless recovery. more ending lag.

Up Spcl: looks great!

Down Spcl: i wish you could have like two diferent lengths to chose from like maybe if you tap b again while doing it you go further. just to switch things up in case you become predictable.

All the animations are simply delightful. great PSA.  you left very few glitches to be found =D  

disregard anything i said thats already been posted >.>

[Tasty Pumpkin Clock]

Well everything has pretty much been said. So I'll just say the things I agree and disagree with most...

First of all I also think there should be two different lengths to teleport for the down special. It would be useful for throwing off the opponent.

Out of curiosity (and forgive me if you already answered this) but why isn't neutral special chargeable??
Couldn't it have a long charge that turns it into Kamehameha? (Or his equivalent: Vanishing Beam. Which is actually his signature attack.)  It's kind of a stretch but it would be nice if you could alter this attack somehow to either Vanishing Beam, Finger Bullet, or Gack (the laser he shoots from his mouth).

Forward special is hard to hit with but still... if it's spammed.. that time slow could get really annoying. I suggest you speed it up and add the hit stun or whatever it was you were planning. Also sometimes the hits don't do any damage...

Just an idea, after using up special if you hold the button he could stay in place in the air. Because he can fly and all...

I love the combo potential he has but up and side tilt seem kind of useless... but apparently others disagree so there. Also something that is bugging me... is how his side tilt is aimed downwards.... why isn't it aimed directly forwards?

I can't really say anything else... it's not like you're going to have a lot to correct. And pretty much every thing else has been said already.

Not a huge fan of DBZ but that doesn't change the fact that this psa is sick.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

I originally wanted the Neutral B to be a pure projectile.  However, I think I have a more interesting idea:

If anyone has played games like Tenkaichi 3, you may know that you can "boost" the power of your super moves by pressing a command.  Well, what I was thinking was this:

For the Neutral B, it's at the current speed (maybe a tiny bit faster) but it deals a weak 5 or 6% projectile.  However, during the charging phase, if you press B, you can store a charge.  Upon storing a charge, the speed of the rest of the charging animation slows down.  Once you have three charges, the animation becomes painfully slow, but the sphere is large and powerful.

It will deal the following:

5/6% no charge
9/10% second charge
16% final charge

What do you guys think?  It's either this or general nerfs to the current Neutral B.

[lYIaXeD OuT]

I originally wanted the Neutral B to be a pure projectile.  However, I think I have a more interesting idea:

If anyone has played games like Tenkaichi 3, you may know that you can "boost" the power of your super moves by pressing a command.  Well, what I was thinking was this:

For the Neutral B, it's at the current speed (maybe a tiny bit faster) but it deals a weak 5 or 6% projectile.  However, during the charging phase, if you press B, you can store a charge.  Upon storing a charge, the speed of the rest of the charging animation slows down.  Once you have three charges, the animation becomes painfully slow, but the sphere is large and powerful.

It will deal the following:

5/6% no charge
9/10% second charge
16% final charge

What do you guys think?  It's either this or general nerfs to the current Neutral B.

Sounds like a really cool idea. I like it.

[sp147]

I originally wanted the Neutral B to be a pure projectile.  However, I think I have a more interesting idea:

If anyone has played games like Tenkaichi 3, you may know that you can "boost" the power of your super moves by pressing a command.  Well, what I was thinking was this:

For the Neutral B, it's at the current speed (maybe a tiny bit faster) but it deals a weak 5 or 6% projectile.  However, during the charging phase, if you press B, you can store a charge.  Upon storing a charge, the speed of the rest of the charging animation slows down.  Once you have three charges, the animation becomes painfully slow, but the sphere is large and powerful.

It will deal the following:

5/6% no charge
9/10% second charge
16% final charge

What do you guys think?  It's either this or general nerfs to the current Neutral B.

Though I'm not a tester and it probably won't mean much, but I do like the idea at hand and I think it would give a Tenkaichi "feel" to it,

but of course, I'll leave that up to testers?

[Kagemaru]

If you can get it to work that would be fine.